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Agreed here with ZTR. Waino getting to, or past, 200 is maybe the one thing other than trying to figure out what next year will be like that will keep me watching down the stretch. And on top of that, I’m not at all sure that the Cards have five better starters just now, and that’s before the likely trades of Monty and Flaherty.
This reminds me a bit of Gibby’s last year. 3-10 and a 5.04 ERA, up from 2.77 two seasons before. The end came of the career came fast.
I’d forgotten the end of Forsch’s career. 3.73 ERA at age 38 with the Cards, then traded to Houston with his ERA at 6.51 the rest of that year, 5.32 the next.
Odds of getting ROY are not high, for sure. Walker was a favorite this year and won’t get it. But I’m not sure of the cost of having Winn spend another 3-4 weeks in AAA before coming up, too.
My money is also on O’Neill sticking around. At least till the offseason when, hopefully, he’s had enough playing time to be more attractive if they want to trade him. Maybe trade him for pitching then, with an OF of Donovan, Nootbaar, Walker, with Edman as 4th OF/late defensive sub/backup SS and 2B.
I’d love to see Monty re-signed. But my money is that he will want to see what he can get on the market at year’s end.
Hi 27-
Players lose rookie status at 130 AB or 45 days on the active roster. Call him up Sept. 1 when rosters expand?
Picking up on the need for “win now” pitching…I keep trying to grapple with what that is. My sense is that part of it is having upside pitchers, but part is depth. Part of the problem this year is that the 4th and 5th spots in the rotation have been particularly problematic, adding strain everywhere else. I think of these as spots where the pitcher needs to consistently keep the team in the game through the end of five. They don’t need to be folks who largely win the game on their own. I’m optimistic that Matz has turned a corner here and will be a solid 4th or 5th starter next year. Landing the other, say next year’s 5th starter, before the trade deadline seems to me doable. Perhaps this is a couple solid AAA pitchers a bit closer than Graceffo is, someone who can let Graceffo get the AAA time he needs.
Mikolas has been inconsistent this year, but part of that is the danged WBC, I suspect. I am fine with him being one of the top three pitchers in the rotation. But they need to get two more. Last year they got Montgomery at the deadline. I’d like to see them do that magic again. Then a top end free agent could look at us and see “hey, I’m joining a team with Mikolas, [trade deadline three], Matz, and AAA guy who will be fifth. This is a rotation that has a good shot at the postseason” and we become a more attractive option.
So I don’t see us getting this all done at the deadline. But we can make a downpayment. Montgomery cost us Bader. Bader seems closer to Carlson or DeJong to me than he does to Donovan or Noot. Bader was at 1.2 WAR for the season when he was traded last year. DeJong is at 0.9, Carlson 0.7. [Noot is at 2.6, Donovan 1.9]. Add in Montgomery to this year’s trade, and the fact that we got Montgomery last year makes me think we have some chance of pulling off a deal for someone who could be a number 3 starter next year without trading, say, Donovan or Noot.
Bob-
Thanks for the ROY reminder. I’d be very tempted to wait till late enough in the year to bring up Winn that he would still be a contender next year. I agree with those saying that it would be good for Winn to see time in MLB this year to begin to get acclimated. I’d raised the concern over the marginal prospect who would be left unprotected to the Rule 5 if Winn is on the 40-man. I’m skeptical that I would worry that much about that player. But I’d rather make the decision knowing who it would be!
It would be interesting if Chicago holds on to win tonight and as a result decides to buy rather than sell, then comes up short this season, missing the opportunity to build, and leaving the Cards with one less team competing with them in selling. OK. I’m stretching in looking for a way to feel better about that debacle in inning one.
Suarez enters the game, so both long men used tonight.
I did a bit of searching, and it seems that a pitcher can be tossed without warning if it’s determined the HBP was intentional. The umps could have let that one go. And should have to my mind. But I think they did have the option of doing what they did.
Mikolas won’t go tomorrow, but if they deal Flaherty, they might just move Mikolas up a day to take the Monday start.
Liberatore is rested. I’d put a lot of money that he gets called up for tomorrow as the innings eater from the pen. Naile pitched yesterday so is out.
I don’t think I remember seeing a pitcher tossed without there being a warning. Hudson hasn’t pitched in five days, so should be able to eat some innings. If he can find the plate.
Watching the Cubs laughing at the Cards, I am wondering if there will be some benches emptying at some point this weekend.
Lawrence’s MLB time is…not inspiring. But he had a sub-3 ERA in AAA in 2022. And the Cards might be on the verge of needing a lot of major league pitching. I can understand the desire to bring Lawrence in for a game or two to see if he’s a possibility, if there’s a need.
I want to bump this. Hjerpe showed some interesting signs just before going on the IL. If his health is nothing to worry about, I could see his moving fast.
Who will need to be added to the 40-man in the offseason? The main cost of not bringing up Winn would be whoever that person is who needs to be left off the roster because of Winn. I doubt that’s Motter, Fermin, or Palacios. And I bet we will know a lot more after the trade deadline.
Bob-
Can you say more about not making giving Flaherty $20 mill for a year? If Mikolas, Matz, and someone acquired at the deadline next week are three of next year’s starters, that still leaves them needing two. Flaherty, even if overpaid, seems to me a plausible candidate. He could be a bridge till either Graceffo or Hence is ready in late 2024/beginning of 2025. That would leave them only needing to win one bidding war in the offseason to round out the rotation. I’d think the price of pitching would go up in the offseason, and winning two bidding wars seems somewhat unlikely Of course, it’s not my money!
This isn’t a question about this week, but….has there been any news about Hjerpe’s injury? It was “undisclosed” when he went on the IL. It’s been nearly two months. Thanks!
Thanks, Bob! I’d managed to forget that relief appearance and had not seen the co-incident velocity problem. I’ll keep my fingers crossed that any physical problem is of the sort that an offseason will help.
Bling-
Curious why you’d like Hudson gone. I might have said the same till his callup. He looks to me like he’d at the very least be a solid long man in the pen, better than a lot of 8th reliever options, so I’d like to see him around. Whereas Liberatore I’d like to see at AAA till he shows he’s figured things out.
Bob and Brian-
Thanks for the warm welcome back!
Brian-
I don’t think I had recognized your point re payroll. 16th??? That does explain some stuff. And makes me guardedly optimistic they might actually outbid someone on a major starter this offseason.
Bling-
I’d slot Hudson over Liberatore for fifth starter next year. He’s had a couple seasons that are at least that good, and there’s a plausible physical explanation for his problems early this year. My money is on his getting one of the spots opened up if they trade both Flaherty and Montgomery to audition for next year’s rotation. I’d rather he were 6th starter next year, though. Liberatore hasn’t shown the MLB performance, and reading commentary, sounds like the front office has grown less certain about him.
