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Boras said his clients wont go to that FA Spring training it seems
also…it seems more like “collusion” may not be the right word…as Boras represents so many of these important players it really is him who is holding all this up…seems like he is advising the players to sit out and not sign contracts so he can the big pay day he wants… it is all about him getting paid, not the players…
Maybe some reform needs to happen in regards to agents and companies representing too many players to the point of causing issues like this where an agent or company can hold up the entire process because they represent too many
limit the amount of players and agent can represent and you won’t have this issue IMO…how you build that into a players union agreement i dont know but i think it would only help. the owners would undoubtedly be on board and the players wouldnt stagnate while a few rich guys want to get bigger cuts at the expense of their product’s(players) potential value
at this point Boras and a few others are monopolies on free agency and monopolies stifle movement and creativity to take care of their monopolies first. not the product. With more competition it would force change and movement…not grind to a halt like it is
at the moment there is nothign to do but wait for someone to flinch and both owners and agents are being hard headed and dont want to give in..players want as much as they can get too but they also want security and know that preparation for the season really does matter…i dont think any of these guys want to sit around or sit out the year…they are just being advised to hold out for the betterment of the other players represented by their agent
all my opinion of course
love this topic
as i am not sure about the scope…i will pick mine for ML spring training
-Jordan Schafer..intriguing set of skills…even if he has just enough to pitch to lefties and go out to the outfield for hitter then come back to the mound for another lefty that would be huge in terms of versatility…it also would allow for the argument for or against the 4manbench/8man bullpen to be sorted on its own
-AD Garcia (not that he isnt known, just that he isnt in many people’s plans but i think he might break out this spring training)
-Max Schrock…he gets hits…fans love hits and high averages…he will play because he gets those hits
-Derian Gonzalez (will light it up…and prove why he got added to the 40man…Perdomo v2?)Matheny can just sit guys without explaining why…he does it all the time..he does it with Yadi all the time
implying that Yadi is not looking good or whatever was unneeded and sparked the whole thing…Yadi reacted poorly… and it all was over with… they moved one…and so should everyone else
as for being contradictory…no…Yadi wanted to play because he recognizes he SHOULD play..and he was one of the best players for us last year…everyone gets a couple days off from time to time…but implying that Yadi is tired and needs to take time off, thus forcing Matheny to sit him is disrespectful…even if not malicious
Yadi should have played every game he could have last year…the team needed him the entire year
what i hear as contradictory is that people say he should just “shut up and play”…. but then they say out of the other side of their mouth that he is getting old and bad (with no proof) so he should sit…then they find another way to complain that the team isnt playing well…yet they argue for one of the best players who isnt tried nor in need of time off most of the time to sit
and as for him having a “decline in agility and mobility”…sure he probably has… no one is arguing that…the problem is that his agility and mobility that he has declined to its still top 5 in the league…and there is no one out there who is available for us that can do better… unless you are willing to take a drop in productivity for the HOPE that Kelly becomes better…yet Yadi has done nothign to show he cant be productive
nope no amnesia…just was curious if any other “proof” existed outside the basically ONE instance or at most TWO instances over a 1 week span in the entire career of Yadi
also that “proof” is pretty subjective
manager is out of line and publicly says Yadi looks a bit …and trailed off… but implying run down or a little tiredsaid player comes back and publicly says (out of line) that he isn’t tired…and then posts picture of Oquendo and that he misses him…and refers to old school baseball (to me more referring to guys playing every day and shutting their mouths publicly) as opposed to any kind of attack on the fact that he was dragging
he wants to be out there every day…and when someone, especially his coach and mentor, says he shouldn’t be out there of course he would take it a bit personally…who wouldn’t
and that’s the whole of it…people want to turn him into the biggest diva ever because someone said he was tired and he said he wasnt… it’s pretty much a non-story that was blown way out of proportion…and both MAtheny and Yadi were the ones who are entirely at fault for it going that way by saying things publicly when they should have known better
any other evidence of Yadi being a “whiney crybaby”?
Go hunt for it..i am all ears…
IMO people just want an excuse to attack Yadi to validate their bias against him and the team giving him a 4r contract they dont like…because they are so enamoured with a prospect who has done nothing to deserve such praise…especially at the expense of a HOF player who probably was overall from start to finish the best player on the team last year
Who is the best catcher on the CArdinals? hitting and defensively? Yadi… he plays…every day he can do it well he should be out there doing it
That would be the expectation of anyone else out there, and if they publicly said they wanted to play after getting benched they would be applauded for wanting to give their all…but not Yadi..he gets attacked (he may have deserved it in this ONE example) and labeled forever as a whiner….when all he was whining about was wanting to play as much as possible when he was having a very good to great year…and he only did so after MAtheny publicly talked about something he shouldnt have…
If i said so and so was tired and implied they werent any good…i am pretty sure that person would feel like they had to defend themselves…who wouldn’t…especially when you disagree and your year pretty much shows otherwise or at least enough to not get your day or two off that you know you need thrown in your face publicly…did Yadi respond in the best way? nope… but usually people when confronted with something they feel they need to defend rarely do so in the best way someone else would want…
it was mistake on the Matheny and Yadi’s parts…but unless i see mountains of other evidence from his 14 yrs of experience that isnt “whiney” i dont see how that label can be attached with such ease unless extreme bias is in play
i defend him because i am bias too…except i am bias because i look at the whole of his character beyond one week and one instance…
show me more until that mountain rises from the water to create this grand vista for the villain of Yadi Molina to stand so obviously
Can someone please show me the quotes or reported behavior that equates to Molina being a “whiney crybaby”?
Why should a veteran who is a perennial All Star, has received MVP votes as recently as 2016, leader of the team, most important player for pitchers, who also is at VERY worst a top 5 defensive catcher in the league, who also was our most consistent hitter last year, hit .273 and 18HRs, led the team in RBI’s and hits, top 3 in GG, AND was healthy pretty much the whole year until a late season concussion (which they were overly careful with) NOT want to be out there every day he can? ANd why shouldn’t the manager of said player WANT him to be out there as much as he can, especially with the inconsistency of the hitting last year?
Yes, Carson Kelly exists…wwe get it…he is “supposed” to be the next coming or whatever
but Yadi plays and keeps playing because he plays well and as long as he isnt injured or gets really bad he should continue to play as much as possible and the manager should try to get as much out of a great player as possible
People really think Yadi could have been even better with the bat or glove last year with a few more days off? come on…
i keep reading the boring line of Yadi getting old and not good…show me how he has gotten so bad…i know that line of discussion makes sense but i don’t see the results proving that in any way…outside of his best ever defense perhaps degrading to the point of only AS, GG level defense.
and if his slow job to 1st on grounders to 2b or SS is an example…he was never fast EVER and just about every player fast or slow does the exact same thing….he also had 7 infield hits tied with Fowler for the year…the most on the team was Diaz at 21
Rosy wasn’t the only reason…Duke was the primary reason, but it would have held up for Lynn before too… and while yes Rosy doesnt seem likely to have gotten paid to sit the line of thinking (until you clarified is still valid)
Now…having said that, i did not know it was allowed to happen once pitchers and catchers reported… that was what i was asking in the first place
now…and this was probably discussed last year about Duke…but it holds true for every team… Why is this a rule? I mean when a player has a surgery or injury that is pretty universally understood to allow for them to be on the DL (and 60Day DL at that)… it seems kind of unfair for a team to punished because of an injury.
Theoretically you could lose your entire 40man to 60day+ injuries and not be able to add anyone to your team until pitchers and catchers report without releasing players. Yes that is drastic and unrealistic, but it still is possible and regardless of it being the whole team or just one player, it punishes a team for NOT releasing an injured player. That seems like something that the players union wouldn’t want and I woudl think the owners would want to have available too.
Yes, in theory someone could try to take advantage of it, but it wouldnt take much to keep in line IMO, abn independent medical panel that would look into the specific cases It wouldn’t be that many total anwyays). The biggest cheats would still only have those players stuck on the 60Day DL and still be presented with the problem of not being able to use those players they stashed after the 60 days.
exactly…so i dont get it…is there some special clause?
Duke and then Reyes later ate up 40man spots even though they were hurt…i even wonder fi we might have gave Rosy a contract this year had we been able to still get that 40man spot
Quick question
I saw that the MEts said they were considering adding David Wright to the 60 Day DL as soon as Feb. 14th. I thought you couldn’t add guys to the 60 day DL until the season started?
I feel like that would have been very useful to the Cardinals to do in the last couple years when we had guys who were obviously hurt in the offseason and yet were taking up spots on the 40man which we could have used to protect players.
Obviously i am missing something, can someone explain? Brian?
mbus
Duffy and HErrera would be a nice sneaky snag…i’d happily do your trade but I’d rather package Hudson and Tuivalala and add a better 3rd prospect or two in that scenario as i still think Flaherty is an nice guy to have around…
Herrera is a nice trade target though a 1yr rental is a little worrisome….trading out 1yr of Herrera for Tuivalala wwho may just as good (as Herrera was down last year) might be problematic too…
I do like Duffy though… he goes in my group of guys to target via trades
Archer
Stroman
Fulmer (DET)
Duffythis is barely even news…it’s a minor league signing….nothing more…just because the name is recognizable doesnt make it anything more than a minor league filler that EVERY team signs every single year
saw on rotoworld (via somewhere else i am sure) that the Brewers were discussing Archer with the Rays
they figure it would take more than Santana or Phillips…
that would not be fun to lose out on Archer if available inside the central…
even if he doesnt go to the Brewers or Cubs…both of those teams are still going to make a move for a starter
everyone is just playing chicken now
If i HAD to prognosticate
I feel like Lynn will end up with the Cubs…as their experience with seeing him, his solid pitching performance, k’s, innings, and reasonable age, will make them feel more confident about giving him what he wants
The Brewers i think will use Santana and maybe one of their depth infielders like Villar or Perez to get a starter from someone… Salazar from the Indians had some traction i think…they save their money or snag a 1yr guy like Cashner for insurance
I think the Yanks snag Darvish…ARrieta ends up in Texas…Cobb goes to Seattle
JD eventually ends up in Boston, KC brings back Hosmer, Yankees get Moose too…LuCroy to AZ… Realmuto goes to Washington for guys not named Soto or Robles…LoMo stays in TB….Frazier heads to SD…HOlland goes to Cubs….
and that’s as far as i can straight up guess right now…
fun to think out loud though…id bet i am wrong on all of them!
per the Darvish stuff…
man those players and families must be getting pretty antsy…no one wants to buckle first obviously so there isp ride built into this too…but man it has to be nerve racking
at first i thought the idea the FAs had for their own spring training was dumb…but maybe it will be necessary
Molina should be playing the bulk of the time…show me this huge decline in his performance
everyone said before last year started and after he got that contract that he was going to continue to get worse like he “did” 1 yrs ago
he only went on to be an AS top 3 in GG, and have one of his best years at the plate…. Why do you sit the best option offensively and defensively?
It is all conjecture that Yadi will decline at such a rate and in such a way that he would not be worth running out there every day he wants or can
He is still one of the best all around catchers in the game, and still top 5 for defense… Kelly doesnt deserve to play unless Yadi needs to rest to keep up his stellar play or heis play declines enough to warrant it…that’s it, it’s not hard
which is why Kelly is being wasted because Kelly probably would be good…but the Cardinals dont need a starter level backup catcher for the role they are using Kelly for which is a once a week catcher and emergency pinch hitter….you dont need a player like Kelly for that…
It’s nice to have insurance, but we dont have anything like that for SS and no one cares, and we have much more recent history of losing SSs to injury and poor performance than we do catchers
We did pretty well when we didnt have future face of the franchise backup catchers in the past….Tony Cruz, GErald Laird, Gary Bennett all have rings to show for it…you don’t need a good all around backup catcher to win WSs nor do well in the playoffs…you need competent defensive backups so that your defense doesnt go to the crapper…
a black hole on offense at the catcher position is pretty normal…and actually is exactly what we signed up for when we put Yadi in the starter spot (and what we came from with MM there)…no one cared about his bat not being any good…again we have been spoiled by how good Yadi is and has been that we cant even see that he is already much more than we ever thought we’d get from him…
Now should we get into ST and we start seeing Kelly with some time at 1b or 3b….now we are talking that his role will have changed somewhat…and that might be worth holding on to… but as pure backup catcher goes…his skill and value is being planned on being wasted…. as Yadi is showing no signs of degradation out the point of needing replacing in any way
I think his development especially at the plate will suffer greatly in the next 3 yrs even if he got 2 starts a week. Why not get good trade value out of him while we can, and get back something we could really use right now…and we haev depended on Yadi in the past and he has come through almost always.. will that end…probably…but it is a guess for when…let someone who doesnt have much value other than AS a backup catcher role fill that role… we have plenty of guys behind Kelly that can take up the future catcher mantle should we move Kelly…and even if they all dont pan out…we can always sign one in FA in the future or trade for one if need be…
as much as good catchers are hard to find…we have a pretty good record of finding them and creating them…losing Kelly now woudl give us pretty much 3 yrs to find or create another…and we already have several guys up for that it seems… using some FA fillers should Yadi go down is part of every organizational structure… who out there has multiple high level catching options on the 25 man? no one really… because it is a waste… even when Cleveland called up Mejia to fit with Perez and Gomes..they started working him at 2b and other positions in hopes of finding a way to utilize him instead of letting him sit on the bench…and they have a DH in that league
Boars and Ozuna already stated they want to test the market i believe…unless he’s terrible for 2 years we will haev to overpay to get him…which means we probably wont right?
this topic is about Hosmer and Moose though….getting back on topic seems to be in order
Moose at the Bruce rate (3yrs-39) seems a gamble considering…but more years nah…and more money…only if it was a 2yr deal maybe…
Hosmer…i still like him…but the years and the amounts thrown around for him right now are pretty crazy for the amount of upgrade he’d be for us…
Kelly has done nothing but play well in the minors…in his chances in the big leagues he has done zero…if this was any other player people would say the same thing…Rosario has contributed more than Kelly in his opportunities
Yadi was at least top 3 in the GG in the NL last year…so “his deterioration” is pretty overstated…but i get it…we are all spoiled by his greatness. YEah he may be worse than he was, but his worse is better than pretty much every other catcher out there…including his own teammates… Kelly’s defense hasnt been shown to be any better at this point either…
Yadi hit .273, 18HRs 80RBIs…and was an All Star…his offense was not deteriorating…and Kelly’s offense in his chances…non existent…
Kelly will be a good catcher..maybe even for the Cards…but he has done nothign and Yadi has done nothing to warrant any major switch…if Yadi is good to go Yadi should play…he has earned it with his years, but also behind the plate…and at the plate…period
Archer is pretty universally regarded as one of the best pitchers in baseball…btu go ahead and attack ME for somehow being the only one who thinks he is any good…not to mention the value of his performance to his contract is pretty consistently thought of to be the best deal out there
FLaherty exists to HOPEFULLY become someone like Archer…which is obviously not going to happen any time soon as he wont have a spot in our rotation unless several bad things happen.. AND he somehow can throw 200ks+ and have a sub 3.5 ERA AND pitch 200 innings…
Kelly serves little purpose for us outside a competent backup catcher who wont be terrible if thrown to the wolves due to injuries…he has high upside and i think he will get there…but unless Yadi goes down or becomes terrible which he hasnt shown any indication of doing yet..it isnt happening here before 3 years are done…period… IMO his best value is bring the Cardinals something they dont have…IMO that is a top of the rotation Ace level pitcher that is ready to go RIGHT NOW…not in hopes of returning from injury, or rekindling past days, or out off nowhere from across the sea
both have internal replacements long term and per Kelly short term could be solved by a FA backup veteran catcher (whose job is to be a backup catcher a non factor offensively have limited playing time and be fine defensively)…which is the role Kelly has for the next 3 years..the FA could be swapped out year to year or until Knizner is ready….and it’s not like we dont have even more options to go with Knizner in Jeremy and Ortega etc.
Your opinion means little to my Nyquist and your credibility is non existent to me…so i am glad we agree on each others perception of the other…which means there is no reason for you to respond to anything i write…that should be quite a load off no? I forget sometimes who posters are and that I try not to respond to the ones whom there is no point trying to talk with….so i apologize that i engaged with you
I will continue to post my thoughts an ideas freely and without any care for your opinion
yeah i am worried about Pham until i see him have 2 healthy years in a row with good production not to mention his eye problems are not a surgery fix, it is an issue that changes and he must adapt to keep up with…this time last year he was 5-6 on our depth chart…there is no guarantee he will be good THIS year let alone in 2 years
two top 100 outfielders… and all that depth…sure..it’s fine and all…but there is nothign for sure with those prospects…Sierra, PLummer, Piscotty, Grichuk Tilson, Ramsey (i think), Valera…all top 100 guys (and some of them werent even top 100…they were just in our top 20-30…. even when we had top gusy they havent turned into much so far)
and you want to depend on them to carry the team… yo usaid if Pham goes down we need an AS…well at what position because you have already anointed a potential 2020 outfield of Bader Oneill AdGarcia… should you trade Fowler, lose Ozuna and Pham to show his age or get injured
Dont agree with me…i dont care
but i dont want to get stuck having to depend on young outfielders turning into all stars…Piscotty and Grichuk have soured me to that…now…if it is the trade deadline and Fowler is stinking it up…and Oniell or Bader or whomever is awesome…yeah give the kids ABs… but if Fowler’s offense is like he was last year (even with his injury) and he wont be playing CF so cant harp on that… then what is the problem with gong with the veteran?
If fowler stinks…then no one will give anything for him nor take on a big part of the salary (and that is even if he allows it)…3mil off…wont happen unless he is playing well…and if that is happening wh ywoudl we go with unproven items behind him unless we are in tank mode….which if Fowler is playing well might be a tough thing to happen seeing as no one is expecting him to be good at all it seems
I agree Brian…
also…I like Oneill and I like AdGarcia and Bader…and the others farther down…but Oneill is still Grichuk 2.0 with his all or nothing…and i’m not ready to get back to being forced into that, Bader i like…maybe the most…but will he grow or will he plateau…ADGarcia is a freak of nature with his size and speed…reminds me of Puig… could be awesome…not enough AAA to even know
My problem with trading Fowler would be in that Pham is old (i like him but he is older) and even if he stays healthy we may only have a couple good years of him..he is still a big question mark…and Ozuna is gone after next year…and if we trade Fowler too that leaves us with the possibility of no outfield…replacing Fowler after this year might be do-able..but then you are forcing us to have ANOTHER prime time ready to start impact OF ready to go the next year…and maybe more if Pham goes down or regresses for whatever reason…
There is no guarantee Fowler will stay healthy or productive, but he is at least here…i’d rather have more options than being forced into having to use ones that arent good enough while paying someone else to get Fowler’s production
And at the end of the day…if it is so obvious that Fowler should go why would anyone give us a good deal at all? If the reason is they WANT him, then why woudlnt we want him? Hard for me to believe that if Fowler is poor that 3mil less would be get any takers not to mention any kind of good prospect back…and if he isnt poor, then why woudl we want to trade him for unproven other players…Isnt that the trouble we got into with depending on Grichuk and Piscotty?
Molina was VERY good last year…let’s not forget…and outside of ONE defensively poor (to his standards) year two years ago he has been a solid hitter and GG level AS catcher that any other team would be more than happy to have
Molina has earned the right to play every day, because he performs EVERY day…
I think it is a waste of Kelly at this time too…but not because it is some grand master plan by MM or Yadi…Yadi plays because he is good at the plate and might be the best behind the plate…if he struggles then we can reconsider, but all this hate came about after he was given the contract after his “poor” defensive year (when he was injured)…but then people keep crying about it even though last year he was our most steady hitter and his defense returned
Kelly should be moved IMO…Knizner while not ready maybe right now…might be ready by the end of the year…there are defensive backups out there who know their role…Rene Rivera wouldnt be the worst backup catcher to have and has experience and a little stick…Kelly + Flaherty + a little more maybe might land us Archer…a legitimate top of rotation piece who would replace the need for Flaherty long term and short term…and Kelly would be replaced by Knizner and FA low cost catcher
crap we could trade Kelly at this point…and still we could still trade for Realmuto or sign FA LuCroy if we wanted who both could play 1b too for us and make our bench awesome and versatile…paying for LuCroy would basically mean paying for Archer’s small salary and LuCroy (who might get less money than people think) and trading an unused and unneeded Kelly and Flaherty for an Ace and a catching contingency plan and still have plenty of prospects and money for the deadline and next offseason
I’m not the biggest fan of LuCroy but he is a good defender and has a stick that was absent early last year but came on late…I’m not the biggest fan of signing LuCroy as a backup to the money he will get…but it protects us and prepares for the future and versatility
Yadi deserves to play every day because he hasnt done what everyone keeps saying he will do…degrade to the point where he is unusable…if he is degrading at all he has only degraded to “competing” for a GG instead of outright winning it…and his offense has never been better
Kelly has done ZERO to earn the right to take away time from Molina…and he may not get the chance, which would be a GREAT thing…because that means Yadi is playing well…which he has continued to do
there are several contingency plans that can be enacted if we traded Kelly right now…both from the farm and from FA…the ownership has created this opportunity…not problem…i just dont see why they arent taking advantage of it
I saw this yesterday….and while maybe Albers last year was TOO good…but 2yrs 5mil total from the Brewers seems like a crazy missed opportunity for us
It’s not a long contract, it’s almost no money and he wouldnt have any hopes of being the closer but would maybe have a chance to become it (so plenty of incentive)
I like our young arms as much as the next person but a deal like this seems a slam dunk
even if he was total flop it woudlnt hurt us at all
his last year was amazing…i can’t believe we wouldn’t have been interested at 2.5yr for 2 yrs, his projections arent even that bad
He’s only 34, sure 1yr wonders happen…but Leone has had only 1yr..and Gregerson wasnt all that great last year…
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/alberma01.shtml
not a bad idea GScott….i’d worry they’d want more than they should though, still a lower level arm or outfielder might be worth it
I totally agree…though maybe the GM spoke to him on purpose 🙂
It wouldnt be the first time a player was wrong about their situations or roles or whatever
And this line of thinking is all temporal…i mean the Rays GM talked to him at that point in time…maybe that was the idea then…but it seems like it wasnt so up until that time, so what got him to be so sure at that point? Probably discussions on trades (we know the Cardinals talked with them right?) have either halted or not gone the way they wanted…so right now Archer is staying put…of course he is, i mean unless the situation changes… which could happen at any time… and a little ploy of telling a player he isnt going anywhere in hopes of said player being put into a situation where he is asked about his situation will say what he just heard which might just buy the extra leverage the GM is wanting to get in getting talks started back up or getting a better offer
If he had been adamant about not being moved from day one of the offseason, and there was no chatter about us being in contact with them about Archer…then sure…
I mean didnt Verlander say he wasnt going to the Stros up until minutes before he finally agreed?
IMO…after reading that…i think Archer isnt going anywhere until the trade deadline…i think he WILL be moved this year though…my opinion of course
However, that still wont stop me from wanting them to change the situation and change the GMs mind right now thus making Archer’s sureness words not false but only temporal to a different situation
Team Archer!
Schwarber and Russell getting better than last year is only a small part of the equation
also didnt Schwarber come back from his injury the WS year and he raked…he was healthy the whole offseason and then was pretty unremarkable
Russell offield issues? fine, but who is to say those are fixed? and that the result of those off field issues didnt create now ON-field issues
Their rotation is worse (-Arrieta – Lackey + Chatwood + Lester one year older = worse)
Their bullpen is worse (-Davis + Morrow = worse)those are two big issues
and even so…using the same logic of them getting better doesnt that hold up for Carp getting back to normal due to an injury? And Fowler getting full healthy year where he returns to his better play? same goes for Cecil, Gregerson… why can’t Wainwright be recovered from his down year? Why cant CMart actually take that next step? maybe even Weaver too
If we want to play the what if everyone gets back to what they can be I think the Cardinals players have a lot more value to be added than Schwarber and Russell coming back