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Are Knizner and Pinder potential big bats?

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Good notebook on State College. Who should we be reading about and tracking as far as position players? Guys who might help the Cardinals some day? Maybe Benson or Lopez? They lead the team with 4 home runs each. Figuera has a little speed, but he probably needs to get that OPS over .700 some day. I guess Hurst, with 5 triples. That’s the guy.

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Don’t know what Mo is going to do,
but this team needs a big time shake up. If he doesn’t do it, he will lose his job.

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Just got back from s social event and turned on the game. We can’t seriously be losing to Tampa Bay, can we, after just losing a series to a sub .500 team?

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Just in the box score either in the newspaper or on line.

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O’Neill or Bader indeed may not be ready in 2018. Or at least until the second half of the season. However, if you go out and sign a FA, they’re going to want a multiple year contract. Which means he may block O’Neill and/or Bader from 2019 on for a few years even if they’re obviously ready. That’s a quandary. It would be another Molina/Kelly situation.

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Calling another poster a “rock”, sir, is far worse than having a “superior attitude” (at least as you accuse). Suggest you check Brian’s rules of posting. Probably a good idea for the moderator to refresh them for you.

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Maybe he’ll improve on that. Right now he’s facing a lot of pitchers that are 4-5 years older than he is.

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Seriously. Why pay a lot of attention to position player prospects who, even if they make it to the majors, will be average or less than average? Which you say is not not what the Cardinals need.

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In September 2016, Baseball America named Tyler O’Neill to the All AA team. That’s one of the best 3 outfielders in all of AA ball. He had 102 RBIs in 5 months.

This season, as a 21 year old he joined the big boys at AAA. He has 26 home runs and 82 RBIs. Some say he has “fallen off”. I say he is just developing and learning at a level now one step away from the majors. Big difference. And some have already said that he is not a potential big bat. I would question that assumption.

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It would make it easier if we knew for sure that Piscotty, Grichuk, Bader, or O’Neill weren’t going to be a big bat for sure.

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If there aren’t any big bats to follow in the system, should we be mainly reviewing the Notebooks with an eye toward the pitchers?

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Where does your new big bat fit? Outfield instead of Fowler, Pham, or Piscotty? Infield at 3B?

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We seem to have developed our own pretty well with
Worrell, Wainwright, Rosenthal, etc.

There are plenty of power arms in the system to consider.

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DeJong – turned 24 this month
Bader – just turned 23
O’Neill – just turned 22
Kelly – just turned 23
Grichuk – just turned 26
Piscotty – 26 last January

Youth.

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Okay, leave the discussion, Brian, but you and I both know that when you get right down to it, it’s pitching and defense that win championships. Also, I look at a rookie on our roster right now who’s hitting .301 at the major league level with 20 home runs in only 286 at bats and it causes me to not shut the door on our prospects like Bader, O’Neill, Adonis Garcia, etc. and say “we don’t have any big bats in our system”. Just a personal choice.

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Grichuk, Piscotty, and Diaz flops? No, I don’t think it’s quite that bad. Disappointments, sure, but they’re still developing players.

Forsch – the comparisons of players who didn’t do much better than our present guys but matured into big bats at the MLB level must have fallen on ears unwilling to listen. And the stats I gave of Taveras his last 2 years must have hit a wall with you. Plus his weaknesses on defense, that were causing the Cardinal to entertain offers. You’re right, discontinuing the conversation is probably in your best interest.

One last one for Brian – how many players on the recent World Champion Giants had an OPS above 1.000? How many above .900? How many above .800? The answer is zero, zero, and 2. How many on that team had more than 40 home runs? above 30 home runs? Above 20 home runs. The answer is zero, zero, and 1. How were they so successful without a big bat? Balance. Up and down the lineup.

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Maddening team to watch. No way they should have lost 2 out of 3 at home to lowly Padres.

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Holliday is missed. He provided leadership in so many ways. He wasn’t a “big” bat ala Votto, Bryant, etc. Just a very solid reliable bat. And quietly set an example off the field.

I wasn’t particularly high on DeJong, but he’s done extremely well this year. That’s one of the reasons I don’t want to prejudge
Piscotty, Bader, O’Neill, etc.

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That’s okay, Brian. We can agree to disagree on this. I just hold our top prospects in higher regard than you do. And I don’t pretend to know in advance whether they’re going to work out or not. No problem.

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Taveras had 8 home runs in 262 plate appearances at Memphis in 2014. When he was called up to the Cardinals he had 3 home runs in 248 plate appearances. That’s 11 home runs in 510 plate appearances.

The year before that, he had 5 home runs in 188 plate appearances.

Do you really call that mashing?

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How about going to the MLB.com list of Top 100 prospects in all the minors. I believe that represents the top 1-2% of all the minor leaguers. In 2012 Piscotty was ranked #51. In 2016 O’Neill was #60 and Bader was
#83. At mid-season 2017 Kelly was #36, O’Neill #96, and Bader #99. What makes you so sure that they won’t become a “big bat” at the major league level. My point in bringing up others is that their numbers didn’t really reach “big bat” level until they made it to the majors and adjusted to the majors. Their numbers were pretty similar to our top prospects right now.

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OT was riding on a reputation he garnered at Peoria in 2011 and to a certain extent at Springfield in 2012. His numbers went downhill from there, if you are referring to him as a “big Bat” on the rise –

2009 – Dom – – 272 PAs – 1HR/42RBI/.357/.338/.731
2010 – GCL/JC – 260 PAs – 8 HRs/45RBI/.303/.342/.828
2011 – Peoria – 347 PAs – 8 HRs/62 RBI/.386/.444/.828
2012 – Springfield – 531 PAs – 23 HRs/94 RBI/.321/.380/.953\
2013 – Memphis – 188 PAs – 5 HRs/32 RBI/.310/.348..819
2014 – Memphis – 262 PAs – 8 HRs/49RBI/.318/.370/.872
2014 – Cardinals – 248 PAs – 3HRs/22RBI/.239/.278/.590

Plus he had some limitations on defense and on the bases. He was anything but a surefire star in the making. The jury was still out, just like it’s out on Piscotty, Grichuk, Bader, O’Neill, etc.
You can point to age, but that still doesn’t give you any assurances.

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I don’t think anyone can say that we don’t have any run producers in the system. With Fowler, Pham,
Grichuk, Piscotty, Martinez, Bader, O’Neill, A. Garcia, Arozarena, and Sierra – you don’t really know who is going to breakout like DeJong did this year. The list doesn’t have a Stanton on it, but it has plenty of talent. The only hole I really see is 3B. Gyorko is a band aid, but he would probably be more overall effective in his super utility role.

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Traditionally, the 4th and 5th infielders are a versatile middle infielder type like Garcia and a corner bruiser type with some power who can come off the bench in the late innings with some pop. The latter was supposed to be
Gyorko. It became Voit for awhile.
It may be Voit again in the future. You never know. That spot may be for a bat and not necessarily versatility.

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