Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
LAD could be an issue as they have pretty prospects who get more love than ours in general but as Pads says…the hit on them because of the taxes would be crazy…
now if the LAD start moving salary of other players then i think it could happen…
still you never know with a team that just missed a World Series victory…and they have plenty of money and they waste a bunch in dead contracts all the time…
i still think we are the best fit… but that doesnt mean much at the end of the day
I haev to say though i a less and less interested in Ozuna and especially Donaldson…1 or 2years of control is really not worth the prospect hit
it’s one of the things i like about the Stanton deal..yeah he may cost some good picks…but at least we’d have 3 years to replenish them and maybe even more…
the money isnt bad with what Stanton can do on the field and for marketing…not to mention the rising salaries in general… if JD is going to get 30mil i think Stanton is a steal at 25 on average
take on the whole salary…give them Flaherty and Grichuk… we’d still have plenty of money to sign some bullpen pieces AND have the prospects to make a BIG trade to help bolster the team
I dont understand the thinking on MArtinez over a Stanton deal at this point… 30million and 7 years for an older power hitter who cant play defense?
If that is the line someone has to cross id hope the Cardinals dont even think of it as a possibility
plus now we have this…
https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/source-giancarlo-stanton-hasnt-ruled-out-boston-red-sox-keeping-completely-open-mindwhich says he is open to anyone
so whose credible “baseball source” or whatever are we supposed to believe?
why should he keep his mouth shut? liek you said it is his career, keeping one’s mouth shut or not is not inherently better or not depending on which way they go
a player that wants to speak out to the public about what is going on deserves the same amount of respect as one that doesnt
as you said…it is HIS career… yet he is being constantly talked about and for..and HIS path is being talked about as if he has no say… i think keeping his mouth shut is pretty irresponsible if he truly wants to get leverage on the situation and go where he wants
Also the way he said basically… “my baseball source says..” that he wont come to Boston or St Louis wasnt speculation…it was saying it as fact…as if we are supposed to believe some unknown source
his whoel article was basically about how his source told him it was a no go on Stanton because that is what Stanton wants and here are other options…i dont like that some reporter or writer or anyone spouting off on things that we are supposed to believe are facts when there is nothign to substantiate…
if he said.. “a baseball source” said he doesn’t think Stanton goes annywhere so maybe we shouldnt get our hopes up and therefore here are all the options outside him then that is totally different
i dont like when Goold does it either…or anyone…and if i am ever found doing it id want someone to to tell me to stop it too…
“a baseball source”
that means nothing calling it a rumor is probably too much credit
So if the team trainer waxed that he didn’t think stanton would accept Boston or StL we are supposed to take that as fact or even rumor?
it’s big bit of nothing
and if Stanton is so adamant specific places he wont go, why then doesnt he just out and say it publicly?
What does he have to lose? All he ends up is gaining some clarity and control to his situation
If it isnt stated publicly by the guy, then there must always be a way for it to work which is where i think it is right now
what does he “prefer” that is totally different than what he will be willing to accept when presented with options that he doesnt like even more…which might be staying and having no team around him
Stanton is the big ticket player we dont have anywhere in our system and the type we wont be able to sign next offseason… he put butts in seats no matter the team’s record….
he is the new version of the Mark McGwire signing …which is what we need right now… we didnt have a “star” outside some aging veterans and McGwire filled the gap and got people to come to the games and back to baseball in general…
McGwire got us back on the big stage for advertising and ESPN coverage and all that crap…Stanton can do the same thing…all the while helping the team get better
we arent getting MAchado, or Harper or Trout or Goldy or Arenado when they are available…and normally we woudlnt be able to get a guy like Stanton either…but with a trade right now we could…at worst a short term 3 years gap filler that helps the team in several ways on and off the field while we try to find the next star within the system
his contract isnt terrible no matter how big the number is to many people…it’s only bad if he doesnt show up for any of the years….a couple 8+ WAR seasons alone make him almost worth it…
3 years 8+ WAR (192mil value)…4 years 3 WAR (96mil)…and 3 years 2 WAR (48mil)
where 1 WAR = 8million (and none of this includes rising salaries or WAR value going up)that’s 336 million of value on a 295 million dollar investment….that puts us in the black
to break even…you barely need more than couple decent years…AND…the Marlins will be eating at least a little of that money no matter who they deal to
he’s in his prime…we get him for at least his prime years…and he will cost a good starting pitching prospect (FLaherty or Hudson or Alcantara) + a couple more pieces…as long as they arent Weaver, Reyes, Kelly, maybe ONeill i dont think it will really matter…
the team we had last year wasnt as bad as everyone thinks they were…we are far from putting all our eggs in one basket with Stanton but it is undeniable that he will help the team’s offense
do we also need to make some other trades and a few other signigns maybe? sure…but Stanton doesnt stop that…
MOz always said that for the “right” player the team is willign to go farther than what is comfortable…with new money and an obvious need…Stanton fits that bill to a “T”….Heyward, Price, Pujols, even RObert a bit…all were gusy we were willing to go farther on despite their cost…we just didnt go far enough…perhaps to our success…but going after Stanton is a no-brainer….and even taking the whole salary isnt stupid…but we wont have to do that anyways… what we give up is a part of it…but our no touch for him needs to be clear…we can add all sorts to it and that is what the Marlins need…they need to replenish not just get one good prospect…
Flaherty + Sierra/Bader + Tuivalala/Gomber/another pitching prospect
but if it takes Flaherty AND Hudson or Alcantara…so what? we have plenty more horses in the stable coming..if it means takign on one year of too much of a contract Ziegler? so what?
it’s a good idea to get the best deal…but sometimes you work it too much and someone else will swoop in and do something stupid…. right now we have some control…but as soon a s the GM meetings start we are lowering our chances of getting a fair or good deal…IMO
I think the Sox are trying to move Bradley so they can get Stanton….IMO
Dodgers can back up their prospect truck and unload it if they want at any time….
Give the Marlins a good deal right now…and even go a little over to sweeten the deal… Stanton will accept it…he knows he has little say in this as he wants to play for something and if he is a brat about where he goes they will just keep him and gut the rest of the team…they are pretty clear they arent going to try to win and their focus is on cutting salary…period
i am just tired of the constant recurrence of the comment about Stanton not wanting to come to St Louis …it was a radio talk show guy saying he heard it from someone else who heard it…it’s like a game pg telephone and it is presented as fact that Stanton wont come to StL…
as others have stated i think he would PREFER lots of things…but WINNING is his main preference
and as for his no trade clause…it’s a non factor as he wants to WIN…and he cant do that in Miami…not because they coudl win in afew years with investment but because they came out and said publicly they were cutting the budget…now he coudl hold his no trade and stay if he wants but he’d lose everyone else around him who made their team even halfway decent last year… Yelich, Ozuna, Realmuto, Gordon all would be gone and he’d have ZERO chance to compete and get pitched around every time he came up
he will accept a trade…he knows his value goes up whjen he is able to be a threat and he wont be a threat when no one can protect him in Miami if Yelich Realmuto and Yelich are gone…
i think the Phils would love him and have the money…but wont get him because they are still a few years away due to a lack of pitching…
Cubs and Sox and Dodgers all would love him but i think they are all in need of either saving up money to afford MAchado and HArper and Kershaw OR they are already looking at spending a lot this offseason to fix what they lost
Giants would love him but they have less quality prospects to offer up…even if they dont have to offer much…plus the money is pretty big for them as they have several other issues to deal with this offseason AND Cueto decided to stay so
The Cardinals match up pretty darned well and have everything the Marlins could want… it will just come down to whether they want more prospects or to save money….im sure they are working out the specifics right now on balancing that figure
to me…with the young core of Yelich, Realmuto and Ozuna…a couple good MLB almost ready pitching prospects and an upside cheap outfielder and maybe a lottery ticket prospect would outweigh the financial hit of taking on some money….
problem i see is that opt out…im sure the Marlins woudl take on money from after it but id think we want them to take on money right now as we might lose Stanton after the opt out…but the MArlins are moving him to save money right now so we have an impasse…
One side will need to move first…
and i agree with the above statement that we probably have some control before the meetings…but once the meetings start it coudl all go out the door
Id be interested on Cozart depending on the price and length…he had a pretty fantastic last year and we have very limited depth at true SS options… little injuries seem to slow him down but he wouldnt hurt us
as for Nunez…i really dont understand why we’d be the most likely landing spot for him…i like him and all i just think he makes sense for just about any team out there and they only put him to the Cardinals because they realized by the end of the article they hadnt had the Cardinals picked for any of the signings and remembered that the front office was pretty adamant about making changes
to me the FA market is where we find the back end of the bullpen…one bigger piece and one good but flawed piece…something like Nicasio and Holland…or Davis and Neshek..
trades are where we really seem to have the most movement coming from
though i wouldnt throw out the idea of a guy like Cozart who everyone is valuing really low even though he could still provide really nice value… Cozart on a 2yr deal with a 3rd year option maybe…slide DeJong to 3b trade Gyorko or Diaz and/or maybe Garcia too… also Nunez on a buy low due to injury could also fit the same way…
there are some other good FAs out there too…plenty of relievers…and some good position players too who for the right price coudl be useful depending on what direction we go in trades…they arent superstars but coudl fill gaps well enough and provide depth if we trade away our depth
i was def wrong on the Rosy situation… still i hope he recovers well and has nice career there is no doubt in my mind he will be around for a while
hope we can sneak Rosario and Mejia through to Memphis
Id really like to keep hold of ONeill…but if that is what it took id be ok with it…Stanton makes the lineup scary immediately… and the money isnt really bad comparatively to his potential production and other salaries
Id be fine with Flaherty, Oneill, Grichuk
I want to hold ONeill as a replacement for the other outfielders as each has a history of injuries…and while PIscotty is an option too…i think we should/could move him this offseason too
Also.. IMO…i think the Fish want pitching more than replacing outfielders…maybe a SS
I offer up Flaherty, Gomber, Grichuk, Sosa…and they eat some money…some good money…and not all of it post opt out…
they get:
-replacement outfielder for Grichuk
-1 ready to go young starter
-1 almost ready to go starter
-a good SS prospectthat is a lot of value for the money they would eat as well as the player they are losing
if it is all about money right now i think showing we can get the MLB ready players to fill holes as well as having good upsides should ease their concern about eating some of the money
i hate feeling like we NEED to get anyone…but the more and more i look at it Stanton really seems like the perfect fit for what we are lacking, and the way the fish match up with hus seems too good to pass up…the money isnt even that bad…we shoudl get plenty of WAR before the opt out to make up for the end of contract woes IMO
But didnt the Dodgers beat all their competitors high and low budgets to get to the WS?
maybe the Stros were just good…and it’s not like the Stros kids are really worth less they just arent on huge contracts…but almost all of them will get their big paydays…if Lunhow had signed bregman or Correa for 500k 10yrs deal as a FA id be impressed with their low budgets…but they…just like the cubs are are just in a window of cheap young players that were high enough caliber due to being drafted in the upper part of the draft to be able to be sped through the system to take advantage of their cheapness…
it’s a fine way to keep a budget low..but you seem to play for the window not the long game…Royals did it and are now dealing with the fall out…TB did it and had to retool and sunk back down….
When all these young players for the Stros paydays come do you really think they will pay them all and keep them all? I don’t…they will be forced to pick a few and hope the ones they pan outand keep dont drag down the payroll…sometimes it works and sometimes it doesnt….Royals kept gordon and that looks like it may be stopping them from keeping Hosmer or Moose…TB kept Longoria and it’s been ok…but they havent been able to replenish the good young players around him from within as they won too much and had to pick from a crop of players who arent sure things…If you want a window you can tank and try to take advantage of the younger players before you have to pay them…if you want to provide year in year out good play and consistency you have to either spend a lot of money and make a lot of mistakes thus eating money sometiems…OR you have to be really wise about how much you spend and how much risk you will take on…which means sometimes missing the playoffs by a couple games or having a few off years where things dont come together or deficiencies or poor play dont correct themselves…sometimes guys just get hurt
CC…i get that opinion…i dont think his contract is as bad as many think…and while breaking even is a possibility it could also end up being very cheap potentially
i just think that Stanton’s best years are his next 3-4 years…he has shown the ability to put up crazy high WAR…getting 3-4 years of really good WAR would more than balance out the negative impact of the later years IMO… add in that he may opt out after 2020 anyways…so you’d be potentially ONLY paying for the good years anyways and that will almost definitely be a deal using WAR valuations compared to his salary
I get the worry about giving out big money…i do…but it’s price you pay for things that are expensive…id rather pay for the prime years of Stanton over the subprime years of JD or Donaldson…even if it is for fewer years… and id take Stantons prime years over Hosmer and Moustakas’….and really how much different will their salaries be?….and will either of them put up WAR approaching Stanton?
werent we willing to go over our normal budget figures and planning for PRice and Pujols and Heyward…even Luis Robert woudl have pushed things way up…
I think the opportunity of Stanton outweighs the yearly impact due to his performance and age…whether the fans remember it or not the justification is the same…the money will balance itself out….if that is the prime concern which id think is the point when doign a budget…i dont think they make the budget as ahrd and fast line it is just a guideline…and a goal…but the longterm budget is more important…i guess unless they were wanting to sell or something
Thanks for all the feedback folks… much appreciated!
I know I tend to look at the budget ona year to year basis, but with 19mil coming off after next year (Waino) it made me think whether this is an average type of thing…not a hard fast 5% over or top 1/3 thing… sure i think that is goal and you have to have those kind of numbers in place to get you started but i dont think they are hard and fast rules if opportunities come up…and i think stanton is one of those rare opportunities like Pujols big contract, Price, Heyward Robert etc. that you keep the budget in mind for but are willing to disregard for the rare opportunity….i agree Stanton is expensive but i could see Waino’s money coming off the books and us having young internal rotation options for 2019 being particularly relevant to Stantons acquisition if money is talking…you can go a bit past your normal threshold this year as you know you have money ccoming off the following year, that you may want to apply now seeing as that money woudl be potentially going towards the same solution
nevertheless…i dont see why people are so against Stanton;s contract…it isnt much really for the caliber of player he is…if 7-8mil is valuation per WAR…he is MORE than making up for that valuation
People keep screaming Machado and Harper and Trout but do you really think those gusy will come cheaper than Stantons contract? Surer Stanton is a few years older, but he is still 3 years from 30 right? he only hits 30mil for two years of the contract IF he opts to stay in… he is basically 25mil per year…and at 25 mil per year (if we can get the Marlins to eat whatever it takes to keep his contract at that average over the course of it i dont see the big problem
People complain about not having superstars and these big time players yet the minute one is available for basically just money they dont want to pay them
We have basically no chance at Harper or Trout or Machado…but we have a legitimate chance to get a superstar power hitting good defender who fits a direct need for the team…he puts up good numbers, and puts butts in seats even if we arent winning…he gets national coverage regardless of wins and losses and even can help out with marketing StL as a destination for other FAs and Cubans too…
he had a 8.8?WAR this year offense and defense (7.6in offense alone)…that’s what 72mil ish valuation?? Maybe that is the highest you will see from him, but so what? if he produces 5 WAR he is still a bargain…even 4 woudl be good…and sure we may pay for some later contract lows in WAR, but you may have already gotten more valuation in previous years than you were paying anyways…
if he keeps the contract…there is:
-10 years left
-285 million total left
-let’s say an average of 4 WAR per year at 8mil per WAR…is 32million per year…320million for 10 yrs
-he ends the contract at 37….so lets say decline from 34-37 (4yrs)…so as a parallel Carlos Beltran from 34-37 for WAR was….4.7, 3.9, 2.3, to a crazy low -.2.. (though this is a little off as he has put up about 1per year average since 37…but still i like it as it might assume a major injury or something)…still from 34-3 Beltran produced 10.7 WAR divided by 4…is 2.675 WAR per year at 8million valuation…that is 21.4million per year on average….for Beltran…might not be a perfect parallel but they are both good players in good shape who came up early and are outfielders who hit for power
-so…with that example..yes…you’d be overpaying at the end of the contract for those specific years in theory…but all it would take is 2 or 3 big WAR years to make those end of year WAR overpays even out…and possibly even make us come out ahead
-for example..if we got the next 3 years at WAR of 6 from Stanton…48million valuation….he is getting 25, 26, 26 million each year… that is 23million, 22mil, 22mil savings each year…and that WAR isnt even close to what he CAN put up as we have seen…
-the last 4 years of Stantons contract are 32,32, 29, 25…take off the 21million per year on average that he will still potentially be producing (via BEltran example)…that leaves is with an overpay of 11,11,8,4 million…34million total…with the above WAR valuation form 3 good years of 6 WAR…it woudl take less than 2 years (1.5yrs) of 6 WAR to make up for any end of year WAR drop off…just to break even…
-SO…with just hypothesizing 3 6 WAR years, 1.5 years of that 6 WAR valuation is actually savings on WAR production and valuation…(as long as the other years are not totally terrible…but we are talking 7 of the 10 years already…so if the other 3yrs were really bad it’d be bad…but i think in his prime years an average of 3ish WAR is not out of the question for Stanton…not taking into account 6WAR is still under what he has shown to be able to produce)-also this doesnt take into account rising cost of WAR or just rising salaries in general either
-so at the end of the day for as much of money it is…it really isnt that bad of a contract as the player has the potential to make it even a steal when it comes to WAR valuation…
Stanton is a good player, players that can put up huge WAR are not so common…id love a team of league minimum Tommy Pham’s putting up 7 WAR but are you really willing to depend on that for franchise building?
I picked Beltran at random…by the way…im sure someone coudl find better comparisons i guess…i just did this quick
Worrying so much about the end of the contract performance is just not something you can worry about much any more… there will always be another team who will pay that extra year or give that extra year if that is the stumbling block…sometimes it bites you but unless you take the chance you may never get the big names you really want…
Personally I am pretty fine with having no name teams…with some sprinkled veteran stars…i like the underrated offenses and building within…i dont really care much to have HR derby winners and HR titles …. but our team just isnt going right now…it is lacking the solidifying thump and fear in the middle that we have had for many years…just like we have done in the past we buy the talent we cant produce…and it seems we are lacking when it comes to the thing that costs the most…flash and thump…
I didnt say that or feel that way at all…
I love Waino…i have one jersey and it is his…and i wear it
I said off the books because the way injuries are piling up on him and his woes this last year I just dont think he will want to keep playing after next year nor do i think we have really planned for him to stay after next year…whether we WANT him to or not…
If it was up to me…i would LOVE to have Waino for another year if he was pitching well and was healthy…he is one of the great Cardinals pitchers and is a model for how we want our pitchers to act on and off the field
I do not regret one dollar the team has invested in him whether he plays one more inning or not, i will be happy every day he is on the team
my remark about his salary coming off the books is just a fact of the end of his contract…if it was Holliday or Gyorko or Fowler or Carpenter or CMart it woudl all be the same…
as per Waino..it is about 20million dollars coming off the book…which is why i said it…which is because we were discussing finances…and while taking on a lot of salary next year might push us up a bit farther than we want…Waino’s big 20million coming off would definitely reduce the impact over a longer stretch
My potential interest in Lyons as a starter comes down to the possibility of us moving MLB ready young SPs which woudl make room for a veteran starter OR a guy like LYons…combine that with the chance to the organization finds an outside backend closer and even maybe also gets nicasio would make even a very good backend guy like Lyons showed he might be to be a little redundant with our other options in the pen..
to me Nicasio and Lyons both are good guys to get as they have been starters and could be them again…or at least go multiple innings… watching these playoffs it is pretty obvious you need guys who can pitch more often for longer amounts of time…and the Dodgers howe you dont necessarily need the same #5 all year and can use the shuttle and the DL to keep innings down
also…
i asked very specifically about the trades i proposed to be about what was in them NOT whether they were going to happen or or SHOULD happen or could fit into the payroll the way we think they should…i was proposing them to get the idea of how the trades were constructed and the valuation of our players to the other teams to get a sense of what all the great minds that post here think about what it would take to do some of these bigger deals and how they may work outso…i was thinking about this…
i know it is a lot…but i was curious people’s opinions of how far off the deals were
NOT whether it was possible to do all of them or whether it WILL happen or not… just on the valuation of the deals and where it was too high or too low and how it might be different
getting all these to work is more a puzzle for me than something i think could rationally happen…even if it’d be a fun ride to watch
sohow about:
-Stanton + Gordon + Prado + Ziegler (we eat all of the contracts except for the Marlins taking on 5 million per year from 2021 to 2028 if he doesn’t opt out)
for
-Sierra + Wong + Gomber + Woodford (a lot of value for us taking on all that salary)then:
-Archer
for
-Kelly + Flaherty + Hudson + GGarcia + Voit (2 rotation pieces a starting catcher for when Ramos is gone after next year)then:
-Simmons
for
-Piscotty + Diaz + Gyorko + Hicks (good cheap contracts with decent players) (would Fowler with us eating some money be a possibility?)then:
-sign Nicasio
-sign Haniganroll with for 2018:
Gordon, Carp 1, Stanton, Dejong 3, Pham, Fowler, Yadi, Simmons
Bader, Jmart, Prado, Hanigan, Grichuk
CMart, Archer, Wacha, Weaver, Waino
Ziegler, Nicasio, Lyons, Cecil, Bowman, Brebbia, Tuivalalanearly impossible to make this work…yes
takes on a lot of salary
we still lose a lot of prospects (but we need to clear room too)but
much better defensively…much more team speed…scary bat…better backup SS in DeJong…multiple closer options….Reyes and Weaver still in system…two legitimate Aces for cheap contracts….clears 40man spots…O’neill AdGarcia still at AAA…still other good pitchers in the system
i think he has shown in flashes he could be very good at starting already… however he really came into his role last year at the backend…which is something we need help with…id feel more comfortable with a kid in the 5 spot more than kid at the back end of the bullpen…
i dont think it is outlandish, but i think Lyons needs to have a role defined for him…and last year it pretty much was once he was up with the team..and he flourished in the most unexpected way at the back end..i dont think we take away that growth when we have more options for the rotation, even if they are younger than Lyons
and i am Lyons as rotation member fan…and have been for several years
that assumes we wouldnt move Wong, Piscotty, Gyorko or maybe even Fowler…and Waino’s money coming off the books after 2018 helps as well
taking on that salary…and putting a trade package for Archer and Colome or Stroman and Osuna including some of the above along with some good prospects would be the type of deal of saving top flight prospects for would make it worth it…you could potentially also include Ziegler in the Marlins deal too to save money for the Marlins while also addressing our needs
i think it is one possible route for a makeover if we go that route…and taking on a lot of salary leaves us with more chips to play in getting the pieces we want…if the Marlins would take on some money post opt out it makes Stanton’s per year commitment much more palatable even in decline…Prado leaves after 2019 and Gordon on until 2021 (but still only 33)…Ziegler is old but gone after 2018
I agree that Prado isnt “needed” and i even agree that Gordon over Wong is marginal (though i think his contact skills and good average along with his MLB leading SB ability is pretty exceptional, and that we coudl potentially MOVe wong and his good value for other pieces is intriguing)
my interest in them primarily comes with lessening the impact of the prospects required to get Stanton
Maybe we can get Stanton’s contract to come down a lot more (make it centered around them taking on salary from the post opt out years, which might be very enticing since he may opt out no matter what…thus their loss is potentially nothing…however the Cardinals gamble a little bit by getting the post opt out years to be a more reasonable salary if he does NOT opt out)
This clears money right now for the Marlins as we take on the Stanton and Prado and Gordon contracts now. We protect ourselves from the negative impact of a huge contract long term while taking on some shorter term contracts that arent so great BUT are shorter AND we save from having to lose the best prospects, so we can either use them OR use them to get other important parts OR help to facilitate other trades to move contracts.
THe Marlins also only potentially are affected by the money they have to eat until later when potentially the Marlins are in a healthier position to deal with salaries.
money seems to be the big player with the MArlins…and i think it will come down to who will take on the most…whether in just Stantons contract OR by taking on PRado and Gordon too
Prado deal is pretty bad. But he had a lost year. He has a history of a good contact bat and good defense. Not much power but some versatility.
I’d be happy to take on all 3 of them and maybe snag Ziegler too.
Id even eat a lot of money to pay less in prospects. The Prado deal is bad if he’s done but the others are workable with good players.
We could then maybe move Wong and Piscotty. Maybe even Gyorko. Maybe in a deal for Simmons? Or a deal for Archer or Stroman
Taking on those contracts allows for us to maximize the prospects and players we move for more higher level players.
I dunno. If getting Stanton and Gordon. For less prospects means taking on Prado I think it’d be worth the difficulty in doing big moves
Reed makes sense…has definitely rebounded after a couple down years
i like Nicasio too…and we can also remember that he has it in him to be stretched out to be starter too…im not sure i want him for that, but it is good to know he has that ability
I am still interested in Duke….maybe i shouldn’t be…but he isnt Randy Choate which i think people think of him as…he came back and was pretty effective, but with a normal offseason he could get back to being a very good setup man. I doubt he gets a huge deal, and having another backend level lefty that isnt a LOOGY could be a pretty nice thing.
Lyons, Duke, Cecil
Nicasio, Reed, Brebbia
with Bowman, Tuivalalanot too bad…doesnt WOW you but could be a matchup nightmare late in games
any thoughts on snagging Ziegler in a deal with the Marlins…he has a contract they’d like to move id think