Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors – 2017-2018

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Viewing 25 posts - 501 through 525 (of 2,872 total)
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  • #37105
    CariocaCardinal
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    I’m the only one proposing Lyons to be a starter but it makes goid economic sense. I dont buy that he cant be an effective starter.

    #37106
    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

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    I’m the only one proposing Lyons to be a starter but it makes goid economic sense. I dont buy that he cant be an effective starter.

    #37110
    thejager
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    i think he has shown in flashes he could be very good at starting already… however he really came into his role last year at the backend…which is something we need help with…id feel more comfortable with a kid in the 5 spot more than kid at the back end of the bullpen…

    i dont think it is outlandish, but i think Lyons needs to have a role defined for him…and last year it pretty much was once he was up with the team..and he flourished in the most unexpected way at the back end..i dont think we take away that growth when we have more options for the rotation, even if they are younger than Lyons

    and i am Lyons as rotation member fan…and have been for several years

    #37111
    thejager
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    so…i was thinking about this…

    i know it is a lot…but i was curious people’s opinions of how far off the deals were

    NOT whether it was possible to do all of them or whether it WILL happen or not… just on the valuation of the deals and where it was too high or too low and how it might be different

    getting all these to work is more a puzzle for me than something i think could rationally happen…even if it’d be a fun ride to watch
    so

    how about:
    -Stanton + Gordon + Prado + Ziegler (we eat all of the contracts except for the Marlins taking on 5 million per year from 2021 to 2028 if he doesn’t opt out)
    for
    -Sierra + Wong + Gomber + Woodford (a lot of value for us taking on all that salary)

    then:
    -Archer
    for
    -Kelly + Flaherty + Hudson + GGarcia + Voit (2 rotation pieces a starting catcher for when Ramos is gone after next year)

    then:
    -Simmons
    for
    -Piscotty + Diaz + Gyorko + Hicks (good cheap contracts with decent players) (would Fowler with us eating some money be a possibility?)

    then:
    -sign Nicasio
    -sign Hanigan

    roll with for 2018:
    Gordon, Carp 1, Stanton, Dejong 3, Pham, Fowler, Yadi, Simmons
    Bader, Jmart, Prado, Hanigan, Grichuk
    CMart, Archer, Wacha, Weaver, Waino
    Ziegler, Nicasio, Lyons, Cecil, Bowman, Brebbia, Tuivalala

    nearly impossible to make this work…yes
    takes on a lot of salary
    we still lose a lot of prospects (but we need to clear room too)

    but

    much better defensively…much more team speed…scary bat…better backup SS in DeJong…multiple closer options….Reyes and Weaver still in system…two legitimate Aces for cheap contracts….clears 40man spots…O’neill AdGarcia still at AAA…still other good pitchers in the system

    #37112
    CariocaCardinal
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    That would put us in luxury tax territory. I dont know how high ownership will go.in salary next year but I feel confident in saying that there is no way we will pay the luxury tax.

    #37113
    CariocaCardinal
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    I dont think the Angels would do that trade. The Rays trade would be doubtful also. But if they would, I would do both of those trades and then just sign Martinez. Payroll would be about $25 million less and we’d be about the same as your proposal.

    #37114
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Where would you prioritize Lyons as a starter compared to the others currently coming back for 2018?

    All with MLB starts:
    Martinez
    Wacha
    Wainwright
    Weaver
    Flaherty
    Alex Reyes
    Gant

    Others close:
    Hudson
    Alcantara
    Helsley
    Gallen

    Next wave?:
    Poncedeleon
    Gomber
    ….

    I guess my point is that Lyons is likely among the best 13 pitchers, so if he isn’t in the starting five, he will be in the pen, not starting in Memphis. Since it doesn’t seem there is room for him in the rotation, why mess around with trying him there?

    For my two cents, if Reyes isn’t ready day one (or should I say day five?), give the ball to Flaherty and let him gain additional MLB experience. He is most likely a better answer for the long haul.

    #37116
    gscottar
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    Jager, I would definitely do the Archer and Simmons deals. I would do them yesterday. As a matter of fact, those are the two players in all of MLB that I would like to have on our team (not counting pipe dreams like Trout, etc…)

    I would not do the Marlins deal. Way too expensive. If we could get Archer and Simmons, re-sign Nicasio, we could finish the off season by adding Jay Bruce and I think we would be ready for the playoffs.

    #37117
    mudville
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    I think Lyons should be given a chance to start, also. His pitches have improved drastically in the last year, or so. I think he’s too good now to be only throwing 50-60 innings. The biggest question mark for him is whether he has the physical and mental endurance to be a starter. The projected rotation is loaded with uncertainty. What will Wainwright be able to provide next year? Weaver has a ways to go before you can say that he is in anybody’s rotation for good. Flaherty isn’t ready yet. Putting him in a major league rotation for a full season could ruin his confidence maybe for the rest of his career. Gant hasn’t been impressive so far. Alex Reyes needs to be brought along slowly. Too much to lose if they rush him. Hudson, Alcantara, Helsley, Gallen, Hicks are not ready, and then you have to wonder which of them is going to be traded.

    #37118
    CariocaCardinal
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    I disagree that there is not room in the rotation for Lyons. I would go in to the Spring with Lyons working as a starter behind Wainwright, Martinez, Wacha, and Weaver. I dont think Flaherty is ready yet, I am assuming Reyes will not start the year in the big league rotation, and I would much rather see Lyons in the rotation than Gant. As others become ready they compete for a spot in the rotation replacing whoever is weakest (including Lyons) or they go to the pen. At a minimum let Lyons fight with Flaherty for the #5 spot.

    As far as a #6 starter goes, plenty of teams take a guy from the pen and plug him in and let him build up his endurance over 2-3 starts. No reason we cant do that as well.

    #37119
    NJ315
    Participant

    If anybody in the Cards org. makes the Archer deal. Fire them all.

    #37128
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

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    Are those in favor of Lyons starting assuming the Cards will not be bringing in a veteran starter? It is not a sure thing, but it has appeared in rumor lists of the team’s priorities, along with closer and middle of the order bat.

    #37139
    forsch31
    Participant

    Free

    CC, I actually proposed using Lyons as a starter in 2018 back on September 20th. I had proposed the following trade:

    forsch31

    Participant

    Trade CMart, Kelly, Gyorko and Grichuk/Piscotty for Freddie Freeman, Markakis, Mike Soroka and Kolby Allard. We may need to throw in a prospect, as well. We would have to use Lyons as a starter and we might be a little thin at starting pitcher until Reyes is ready to start again. We would be in great shape for the next 4 years. We would shift Carp back to 3B with Diaz or Wisdom to back him up.

    This would be a case of giving up something valuable today for something needed today and set us up for the future. Soroka is a RH starter ranked #48 by BA, #64 by BP and #78 by MLB at the beginning of the season. He is up to #34 by MLB. Allard is a LH starter ranked #37 by BA, #53 by MLB and #67 by BP at the beginning of the season. He is up to #21 by MLB.

    High cost by Atlanta but they solve 2 immediate needs of TOR pitcher and their C for the next 10 years. We also shore up their need for a stopgap 3B until Kevin Maitan and Austin Riley are ready. They are VERY deep in SP prospects.

    Looking back on it, I would probably also re-sign Lynn and let Flaherty get some more time in AAA.

    #37140
    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

    Paid - Monthly

    Brian, I am confused. In one post you insinuate that you think that there is currently no room in the rotation for Lyons and shortly there after post that you think the Cards could be looking to add a veteran starter.

    #37142
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    I think I can clear up your confusion. If it was up to me, which it is clearly not, I would probably not bring in a veteran starter (at least of the quality to be assured a rotation spot), but I have read others speculating about that possibility. So it seemed relevant to bring up in the conversation.

    Of course, trades could change the requirements greatly, which is one reason they may want a buffer. Or injuries.

    Also, for those who think Flaherty is not ready. 15 starts at Memphis. 7-2 with a 2.74 ERA. 85 Ks in 85 1/3 innings. He will pitch at age 22 in 2018. What more would he need to show you?

    A point of reference. On his way up, Carlos Martinez made 13 starts at Triple-A in 2013 at the same age as Flaherty was, 21. His Memphis ERA was 2.51.

    #37146
    thejager
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    My potential interest in Lyons as a starter comes down to the possibility of us moving MLB ready young SPs which woudl make room for a veteran starter OR a guy like LYons…combine that with the chance to the organization finds an outside backend closer and even maybe also gets nicasio would make even a very good backend guy like Lyons showed he might be to be a little redundant with our other options in the pen..

    to me Nicasio and Lyons both are good guys to get as they have been starters and could be them again…or at least go multiple innings… watching these playoffs it is pretty obvious you need guys who can pitch more often for longer amounts of time…and the Dodgers howe you dont necessarily need the same #5 all year and can use the shuttle and the DL to keep innings down

    also…
    i asked very specifically about the trades i proposed to be about what was in them NOT whether they were going to happen or or SHOULD happen or could fit into the payroll the way we think they should…i was proposing them to get the idea of how the trades were constructed and the valuation of our players to the other teams to get a sense of what all the great minds that post here think about what it would take to do some of these bigger deals and how they may work out

    #37148
    PadsFS
    Participant

    I’d like for Flaherty to get a little more time in AAA personally. 15 starts doesn’t seem like a lot to me. I would rather Gant get the 5th starter role out of spring than Flaherty or Reyes. Flaherty did pitch 170 innings last year, which is fantastic. If you look at Gant though, his stats look really close in AAA to Flaherty. He even had a better FIP. Those AAA numbers for Flaherty had an unsustainable LOB% and a lower-ish BABIP. Gant can shift to the bullpen in June if Flaherty or Reyes are ready.

    I wouldn’t mind a veteran starting pitcher added. I don’t really want to mess with Lyons, but I also would like to let him get stretched out in spring training. That’s a smart move and would be similar to his work up to last year.

    Weaver, with 150 innings, seems like the one that will run out of gas by next September. That’s when I’d like Reyes/Flaherty to be ready. They can come on strong by then like Wacha in 2013.

    #37149
    CariocaCardinal
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    To answer your question Jag, I see the Angels wanting a better pkg for Simmons and the Rays trade about right in terms of value though I have no.idea if those are their specific needs or the players they would covet.

    #37150
    PadsFS
    Participant

    Carlos Martinez also didn’t really seem ready to get the call up in 2013 and spent that year and most of 2014 in the bullpen. I don’t think that’s a good path for Flaherty to follow.

    #37151
    CariocaCardinal
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    I am going by what others have said in terms of Flaherty appearing that he could use some more refining in AAA. That would seem more relevant than his stats.

    #37152
    PadsFS
    Participant

    I don’t think the Angels are looking to trade Simmons unless they got a real SS in return. Diaz wouldn’t likely be the SS they are going to count on in 2018. They can get the role players they need via free agency.

    I don’t think they were counting on Maybin, Espinoza, Valbuena, and Escober to nosedive so hard.

    They also have almost $70-80M to spend this offseason after losing several FAs (like Upton) and the Hamilton/Street contracts.

    #37153
    gscottar
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    Paid - Annual

    Speaking of the rotation what about moving Wacha out of the rotation to the bullpen? His numbers indicate a huge drop off in effectiveness the third time through the order. The front office has not shown any indication to consider this move but I think it is worth thinking about at least.

    As for your trades Jager:

    For Simmons I would send them Gyorko, Diaz, Piscotty, and Flaherty.
    For Archer I would send them Grichuk, Kelly, Alcantara, Hicks, and Wisdom

    I would not pursue a trade with the Marlins: Stanton’s contract worries me, they would ask too much for Ozuna and Yelich, and I have no interest in Gordon or Prado.

    For our big bat I would sign JD Martinez or Bruce for RF.

    #37157
    PadsFS
    Participant

    I think Simmons would start with Kelly and Archer would start with Reyes.

    #37158
    nbr1hawkeye
    Participant

    Free

    Re: Let Lyons be a starter…

    I would be ok with that. At least give him a shot at it.

    #37159
    Bw52
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I have been wavering between trading surplus OF or Carpenter and or Fowler( i wish) for a young controllable bat or just signing a Free agent big bat and trading OF surplus for bullpen help.I don`t want a one year rental (Donaldson,Brian Dozier) that could cost young arms(SP).I think the best way to go is just try and sign a impact bat preferbly LH ( Moustakas,Bruce,Hosmer) if none of them sign then go after JD Martinez.Of course i change my mind daily so whatever.

Viewing 25 posts - 501 through 525 (of 2,872 total)
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