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I like the posters who can look objectively at the strength of the teams (total WAR) and the injuries (total WAR days lost to injury) over the past years, under both Tony and MM and compare the results. That’s objectivity.
And as far as people within the organization, if someone (or ones) have been friends for a long time and have always been objective in their assessments (both positive and negative) over the past years, I have no reason to doubt them or question their bias.
I just remember some Cardinal teams in the past that floundered
around much of the season, and then kicked it into high gear the last month or two. A finishing kick. We’ve had some players this year who have underperforme to their hitting, defense, and base running norms. Maybe it’s coming around. Sure hope so.That’s great input, Mike. Thank you very much. It will be interesting to see how 2017 plays out.
Wonder if the last 3 games have been a fluke, or just the law of averages starting to catch up
on offense.If this team gets hot and makes the playoffs, I wonder if any significant moves will be made over the Winter. What happens if the existing players get it turned around and start playing to their career numbers?
I’m waiting for a factual explanation on why he’s a bad manager.
The folks I have talked to inside the organization think he has done a good job. There seems to be a disparity here. Maybe you should just agree to disagree with his bosses.I don’t have man love. I disagree with some decisions MM makes. But the fact is, he has a better winning percentage than most Cardinal managers over the history of the franchise. And his roster wasn’t as strong without Albert with the team he inherited. All I hear back is opinion, without supportive data. I guess some people just have an authority complex with this particular manager. They “feel” he’s the worst manager in MLB. Of course one of the best owners in MLB feels differently, but who cares about that.
Please tell me who the #3 and #4
hitters for the Cardinal have been in 2016 and 2017. We can use that as a start in the MM analysis.You still haven’t said anything that’s factually based. Just your opinion on the matter. Mindless devotion to wins and loses? Mindless? Really? Isn’t that what baseball is all about – wins and loses?
He was handed a way above average team? Really?
Care to quantify that?When MM bashers are confronted with facts, they retreat into squishy generalistic negative comments about MM.
Nothing is going to change their dislike of him as a manager. He could win the WS and some posters would insist the team won in spite of him. It’s bizarre.Suggest you compare the lineup in Tony’s last year to the lineup in MM’s first year. You might change you mind about the team MM “inherited”.
2011 Cardinals under Tony – Molina, Pujols, Schumaker, Theriot, Freese, Holliday, Rasmus, Berkman
Pujols, Holliday, and Bergman in the middle of the lineup for Tony
2013 Cardinals – Molina, Craig, Carpenter, Kozma, Freese, Holliday, Jay, Beltran
He took this team into the World Series with Kozma, Jay, Freese, and Craig?
2016 Cardinals – Molina, Adams, Wong, Diaz, Peralta, Holliday, Grichuk, Piscotty.
How did he challange for a playoff spot until the last day of the season with this lineup? His #3 hitter was hurt much of the year and he had no #4 hitter.
2017 Cardinals – Molina, Carpenter, Wong, DeJong,
Gyorko, Pham, Fowler, Piscotty, and Grichuk.Really? Tonight his #3 hitter was in Memphis several months ago and his #4 hitter is pure AAAA. Both rookies.
This much depth? He lost his #3 hitter much of last year, and still was in the hunt until the last day of the season. This year he has a mish mash around the horn, no proven #3 or #4 hitter, and is only several games out of 1st place with 50 games to go.
If you want to place blame, place it on what he has to work with.Larussa finally won a pennant in his 12th year.
Torre finally won a pennant in his 16th year.
Whitey finally won a pennant in his 11th year.
Matheny won a pennant in his 2nd year.gs –
Why not look at when championships were won by the other 3.Torre won a WS finally in his 16th season.
Herzog won a WS finally in his 11th season.
Larussa won a WS finally in his 13th season.Last time I looked, MM was in his 6th season.
Why don’t we take a look at those winning percentages –
Whitey Herzog –
Career – .532
Cardinals – .530Tony Larussa –
Career – .535
Cardinals – .544Joe Torre –
Career – .537
Cardinals – .498Mike Matheny –
Career and Cardinals – .561
“MM was a terrible hiring from day 1″………..Sheesh. Wonders never cease.
Who has the best winning percentage as a major league manager?
Whitey Herzog
Tony LaRussa
Joe Torre
Mike MathenyFor the same 4, who has the best winning percentage as a Cardinal manager?
Last 10 years record for MLB teams (as of 4/12/2017) –
30.) Astros – 711-908
29.) Marlins – 752-866
28.) Twins – 755-867
27.) Mariners – 757-863
26.) Rockies – 759-862
25.) Padres – 759-862
24.) Pirates – 763-855
23.) Royals – 770-850
22.) Diamondbacks – 755-845
21.) Orioles – 780-839
20.) White Sox – 782-839
19.) Reds – 789-831
18.) Athletics – 796-823
17.) Nationals – 798-820
16.) Brewers – 806-814
15.) Mets – 807-813
14.) Indians – 811-807
13.) Cubs – 811-806
12.) Blue Jays – 822-798
11.) Braves – 826-793
10.) Phillies – 834-786
9.) Giants – 838-782
8.) Rays – 841-780
7.) Tigers – 855-764
6.) Rangers – 861-760
5.) Red Sox – 873-747
4.) Dodgers – 878-741
3.) Angels -881-739
2.) Cardinals – 892-728
1.) Yankees – 913-707So what do BDW, Mo, and MM get for it?
“Dewallet”
“Bow tie”
“MM was a bad hiring from minute 1”No wonder fans in other cities call us spoiled and obnoxious.
Last 10 years record for MLB teams (as of 4/12/2017) –
30.) Astros – 711-908
29.) Marlins – 752-866
28.) Twins – 755-867
27.) Mariners – 757-863
26.) Rockies – 759-862
25.) Padres – 759-862
24.) Pirates – 763-855
23.) Royals – 770-850
22.) Diamondbacks – 755-845
21.) Orioles – 780-839
20.) White Sox – 782-839
19.) Reds – 789-831
18.) Athletics – 796-823
17.) Nationals – 798-820
16.) Brewers – 806-814
15.) Mets – 807-813
14.) Indians – 811-807
13.) Cubs – 811-806
12.) Blue Jays – 822-798
11.) Braves – 826-793
10.) Phillies – 834-786
9.) Giants – 838-782
8.) Rays – 841-780
7.) Tigers – 855-764
6.) Rangers – 861-760
5.) Red Sox – 873-747
4.) Dodgers – 878-741
3.) Angels -881-739
2.) Cardinals – 892-728
1.) Yankees – 913-707So what do BDW, Mo, and MM get for it?
“Dewallet”
“Bow tie”
“MM was a bad hiring from minute 1”No wonder fans in other cities call us spoiled and obnoxious.
“MM was a bad hire from day one”
Now that type of generaliatic, shallow, statement is truly thought boggling. An insult to reason.
Bill Dewitt, Jr. is one of the most highly thought of owners in MLB. Look at the history of the Dewitt family in the game. He’s also a superior businessman. He’s thoughtful and thorough. He doesn’t make a “bad hire from day one”. No matter what some anonymous self professed expert poster on some baseball forum thinks.
People can be fickle. If the Cards get hot and win the Central, the same guys will be high on him again less than 2 months from now.
It’s been said that we should give credence to “those in the know”.
I just checked 5 web sites that rank major league managers. The highest MM was ranked was #6, and the lowest he was ranked was #15.
All I know is that people in the organization regard him highly, especially his leadership qualities. I know enough from the people that I’ve talked to that he has many characteristics that make a good manager. That’s why I’ve stated on here that I regard him highly. As far as his tactical expertise? Again, I’m unqualified to
judge that because I’m not qualified and don’t have all the behind the scenes facts and data.
