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St. Louis would be the best place. He’s an icon here. The fans adore him. In another place he would be just another player at the end of his career. He’s made over $155,000,000 in his career. How much is enough?
Don’t get me wrong…the dropoff from Yadi to Knizner would be massive.
I am not sure it would be massive. The slash line would probably be similar from one to the other. Yadi might have the edge defensively. The biggest difference would be intangibles but I don’t know if that would be worth $6M-$10M.
Let’s face it the real reason the organization wants to bring Yadi back is to sell tickets and jerseys. It is all about the revenue.
I would rather see us put the best team on the field with the revenue we have available. They are supposed to be running a ball club not a museum.
I am not sure it would be massive.
The Cards didn’t give Knizner any PT at all this year despite Yadi being out with COVID. Wieters was the starting catcher then. Wieters was horrid. Knizner profiled lower than him on the pecking order. Hence, Knizner likely will be a horrid defender who will lead to a huge spike in passed balls, missed strikes framing and probably a big jump in stolen bases.
I’m really not trying to overstate it but while the WAR numbers would probably be about a 1.5-2 difference (that is 1.5-2 for Yadi and -0.5-0 for Knizner), the W/L column will probably be more like 3-5 extra losses. The team isn’t going anywhere in 2021 anyway but Knizner’s stock has dropped majorly in my eyes. I’d probably place Julio Rodriguez ahead of him if we were still doing a rankings. Backup catchers who can hit ok but not defend aren’t worth a lot.
So Knizner has gone from Top 5 prospect in 2020 to now he is borderline horrid? That seems dramatic. That says more about the Cardinals allowing Yadi to dictate playing time than anything else.
Here are the projected 2021 slash lines from Baseball Reference.
Yadi- .252,.307,.398,.705
Knizner- .246,.321,.414,.735So Knizner is projected to have the better year offensively so that leaves defense and intangibles. I still don’t think those will be worth $6-$10M. It is still about tickets and jerseys.
stlcard25 said:
The team isn’t going anywhere in 2021 anyway but Knizner’s stock has dropped majorly in my eyes. I’d probably place Julio Rodriguez ahead of him if we were still doing a rankings.
You are entitled to your opinion, of course, but I do not concur with that assessment, FWIW. Knizner and Herrera would have been firmly in our top 10 with Rodriguez around no. 20. The community could see it differently, though.
That reminds me. I am adding a note to the Top 50 overview article noting that Knizner and Ravelo are considered graduated. We decided to be consistent with the national prospect raters.
The Cards didn’t give Knizner any PT at all this year despite Yadi being out with COVID.
Might be careful here. For some reason this raises Knizner’s stock to me. Wouldn’t be surprised if Neander is on the phone with Mo now.
GS, While you’re right that it’s about tickets and jerseys (which we won’t have any idea will even be available), there’s zero chance this team is better in 2021 with Knizner behind the plate than with Yadi. 2021 may not matter in the end, but 2022 would be the target where we need a reasonably good catcher back there (Herrera is that guy if there’s one in our system).
I like Knizner as a backup only, pinch hitting type catcher. I don’t like him as a starter. The Cards tipped their hand this year as to how they view him, IMO. Which is why I’d drop him in my own rankings.
VEB with a good take.
If you’re worried about Yadier Molina not re-signing quickly, well be prepared to wait. This was going to be a complicated situation before the pandemic, and now it’s only gotten more complicated. https://t.co/kCwNqM5go3 pic.twitter.com/E7MhOGXHDj
— viva el birdos (@vivaelbirdos) November 2, 2020
there’s zero chance this team is better in 2021 with Knizner behind the plate than with Yadi.
I don’t view Knizner as a big dropoff and if the Cards were to use the Yadi savings on getting another bat then we could actually be better in 2021 with Knizner instead of Yadi.
I don’t view Knizner as a big dropoff and if the Cards were to use the Yadi savings on getting another bat then we could actually be better in 2021 with Knizner instead of Yadi.
I appreciate the thought process. Obviously I don’t agree and it would take a signing on the level of George Springer to bump us up the 3-5 wins that I project Knizner to cost us. If the Cards just mangled Knizner’s playing time this year (which there’s a chance) then maybe they could improve. I would still say this team is 85-88 wins with Yadi and 80-82 wins without, so the other signing would need to be a very shrewd one.
In all fairness, roster sizes are not unlimited. Folks seem to forget that the Cardinals had to squeeze out every bit of benefit from their 28 men, mostly by madly shuffling pitchers on pretty much a daily basis. They could not afford to carry three catchers for the vast majority of the season. That put Knizner most often on the taxi squad by definition.
Loud and angry fans wanted Wieters released during the season, but they would have been the first to turn around and condemn the FO for being short sighted when injuries (or move COVID cases) hit the position the next week.
2020 was not ideal for many players and clearly Knizner was one who was caught in the middle. But I am not reading any more into it than that.
Morosi even cites his source!
Yadier Molina has been contacted by 3 teams in addition to the #STLCards since free agency began, his agent, Melvin Roman, told me today. Molina, 38, wants to play for 2 more seasons and will listen to clubs' proposals with that objective in mind, Roman said. @MLBNetwork @MLB
— Jon Morosi (@jonmorosi) November 2, 2020
I seem to think that Molina would have no business being on the ’22 version of this team. That will be the year the Cards are targeting to see a change on the roster and in the culture of the organization. The distraction that would likely occur if he doesn’t project as the starting catcher is probably inevitable.
I can’t see the Cards spending what Molina thinks he is worth for a two year contract. It would be more prudent to cut bait now.What kind of contract is Yadi wanting? I am thinking the Cards max out at 2 years/ 20 million. Or maybe less if they defer some of the payments, but I am not sure either side would prefer doing that.
As always, the devil is in the detail. The line between a fair offer and an overpay is a matter of opinion that will vary by person.
After reading more details on Yadi and his social media whining I think it is time for the Cards to bid him adieu and let him show his talents to other teams. He is truly another Tommy Pham in that he thinks he is playing for the Molina Cardinals. They have bowed and scraped to him too long and he is becoming pretty much the spoiled brat who thinks he can have his way with the brass just by complaining. I think it is time to get a new catcher in the fold and get them trained up. Yadi as a gem without a doubt but the gem is turning into a rhinestone in his waning days. I would not have given him a gold glove this year and, as for being Puerto Rican, he is barking down the wrong alley there.
I agree with you MM3 and the Cardinals already have a replacement in Knizer. If they can cut loose their starting 2B for a cheap replacement then they should be able to do it at C also. The only difference is that Wong didn’t sell as many jerseys and tickets as Molina.
The pot is being stirred…
Future Hall of Famer Yadier Molina has received calls with interest from both the Yankees and Mets plus 3-4 other teams in addition to the #STLCards as I just said on @MLBNetwork St. Louis is the likely favorite but in free agency you never know. Seeks a 2-year deal.
— Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) November 12, 2020
From betonline.ag. The Cardinals are not listed because they don’t give odds on players returning to their last teams.
Where will Yadier Molina sign next?
New York Yankees 2/1
Phildelphia Phillies 5/2
New York Mets 11/4
Miami Marlins 3/1
Boston Red Sox 5/1For grins, here are the Realmuto odds, since he is the big dog catcher on the market.
Where will J.T. Realmuto sign next?
New York Mets 1/1
Los Angeles Angels 3/1
New York Yankees 4/1
Washington Nationals 4/1
Houston Astros 6/1
Detroit Tigers 8/1If the Cards don’t add any new, exciting players, it’s good marketing if they resign their future HOF catcher. Probably
Waino too. Tradition means a lot for this storied franchise.This new wave of C-19 is unnerving for all sports fans. Will this influence 2021 severely? Will the vaccine save the day in time for spring training and onward to be somewhat normal? If the Cards see a new 2 year Molina contract as too much of a dent in the budget… how is the time for them to part ways on mutual good terms. Is the Heineman addition a clue? Probably not.
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