Yadier Molina Contract Extension??

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  • #114483
    AvatarCardinals27
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    I think the best plan is to keep Knizner (unless overwhelmed with a trade offer) as the backup next year. If he stays with the big club the whole year he has 2 option years left. He needs to see more playing time than Kelly did though. He also played first in the minors, and might make a good backup to Goldschmidt. Another year also gives kids like Herrera and Julio Rodriguez another year to develop. They should be at AAA and AA at least respectively.

    I also agree that Yadi should not be extended until after his contract expires. Hopefully he can follow the Wainright path.

    #114535
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    I don’t who is a bigger threat to Knizner remaining in the organization, Molina with an extension or IHerrara rising on the horizon? Probably both scenarios. Knizner is in the same boat that Kelly was in. I don’t see him wanting to stick around when he should be playing MLB. He won’t be a happy camper unless he is playing in a different uniform. Thanks Yadi for your continued egomania.

    #114546
    Avatarforsch31
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    I should say that I would prefer they wait and do the Wainwright treatment with Yadi. However, if they don’t, I hope they cut him the maximum.

    #114547
    Avatarforsch31
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    I wish Godoy showed a little better. He could be a bridge to Herrera or Rodriguez if the Cardinals traded Knizner.

    #114548
    Avatarmudville
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    Yadi still has that charisma, or presence, or intensity, or whatever somebody wants to call it that allows him to command the whole field. I don’t know if Knizner or Herrera or Rodriguez will ever come close to being able to do that. His pitch framing is still excellent, and he still handles pitchers probably better than any catcher in the game. The team is going to miss him, and we’re going to miss him, after he finally has to retire.

    #114560
    bicyclemikebicyclemike
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    Yadi is one of those guys, especially at this point in his career, who brings more value than the stats show. I do not think he should hit 5th in the order, however. He is more of a 7th or 8th place hitter, but has this reputation as a clutch batter, which is a myth. No player hits better in so-called “clutch” situations than they do overall during the course of a long career, although they may have spikes where in a particular season the hits fall at the right times more times than others.

    My all-time Cardinal team has had Ted Simmons as the first-string catcher all these years, but I am finally at the point of where Yadi has evened the score. I believe their WAR numbers are about even now as well. I will likely move Yadi to number one, and knock Teddy to the second team, which knocks Tim McCarver down to the third team. On down the line the likes of Walker Cooper, Bill Delancey, Darrel Porter and some of those slip further as time marches on and those guys tend to be forgotten.

    I hope Yadi sticks around as long as he wants to be on the field, but we are most likely looking at his final one or two seasons. On this one I trust the club has the financial resources to do whatever they can for Yadi, while not hampering their ability to bring in a difference maker if one can be had.

    The Cardinals rarely make the big splash on free agents anyway, as they prefer to take care of their own. And it seems free agents do not usually want to come in to “baseball heaven”. They prefer to take the highest offer, which is almost never from the local club, rather than a competitive offer that may or may not bring greater overall joy and happiness.

    #114563
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    The front office has to play this carefully, but smartly. It would be bad for all if Molina gets upset and plays the re$pect card. I hope it doesn’t get to that for many reasons, including the potential to be an unnecessary distraction for the team next season.

    #114603
    AvatarNigel T
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    I am not sure Yadi can control the playing of the respect card; people who are driven by fanatical passion and exhibit an edge demanding more of others cannot turn that off. You dare not extinguish that fire, and why wouldn’t Yadi expect more from the organization? He has given his left nut for this team.
    He and Adam are two different people from different families, backgrounds, and experiences. I wouldn’t change Yadi. I will struggle and succeed to love him when we enevitibly cross that creaky bridge, but that is what it means to love one another even when we don’t agree on what is appropriate. We disagree but move forward and cry when we part.

    #118234
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Mark Saxon predicts Molina will sign an extension during spring training. It would pay $17 MM in 2021 and $10 MM on a team option in 2022. The $17 MM would fall within the maximum salary reduction limit, but I don’t think the $10 MM would. Not 100% sure on that, though.

    https://theathletic.com/1507390/2020/01/03/twenty-predictions-for-cardinals-in-2020/

    #118240
    Avatargscottar
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    This seems like a likely scenario but I still would prefer waiting until the end of the year and give Yadi a lesser contract like they did with Waino. I understand wanting to respect a legend but didn’t his current $60M contract show enough respect?

    I am not into the lifetime achievement awards. That is why we currently have no payroll flexibility.

    #118250
    Avatar858booyah
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    I would wait. We’ve been burned too much.

    Yadi is franchise icon and it’s sometimes hard to let go of them but sometimes it’s for the best if you want to move forward. Team hasn’t won a title in 8+ seasons and is not what it was. At some point change has to be considered no matter how much egos get hurt. If he’s productive at the plate and has that same presence as a defender. I don’t see why we can’t figure something out but I’d wait it out.

    #118254
    AvatarBob Reed
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    “…I still would prefer waiting until the end of the year and give Yadi a lesser contract like they did with Waino. I understand wanting to respect a legend but didn’t his current $60M contract show enough respect?”

    “I am not into the lifetime achievement awards. That is why we currently have no payroll flexibility.”

    I am with you 100%, gscott, regarding Yadi. He’s only been a real asset with the bat once or twice in the past half dozen years, and moreover the framing/blocking/throwing have declined to the point where the team ERA has been lower over the past two years with the backups behind the dish than with Yadi — a truly HUGE reversal of his previous career-long trend.

    Lots of blame to go around, though, when it comes to the payroll squeeze. And this would be good timing for payroll flexibility, right? I mean, wouldn’t it be nice to have, say, Mookie Betts plus some dough left over, instead of Fowler, Cecil, and Miller? That trying trio will make about $35,000,000 in 2020. (They’ve combined to give the club just under one WAR, for just over 80 million bucks.)

    Mo and Girsch were bailed out by the draft & development people in 2019, thanks to tremendous contributions from Flaherty, Hudson, Edman, Wong, and DeJong. The raft of bad contracts was gonna get the front office gutted in my opinion, if the club missed the playoffs for a fourth straight season. But perhaps that’s just wishful thinking. (Relatedly, the ubiquitous StL/Ozuna talk is really starting to give me a belly ache, a baseball ulcer, just like the Hosmer and Fowler speculation did — and somehow one of those horror stories came true, unfortunately. If they bring Ozuna back, throwing away the draft pick and blocking those talented young outfielders*, then they have learned exactly nothing from the Dexter debacle.)

    But I digress. This a Yadi thread, and as others have said, the thing that’s best for the team in my eyes is to wait. Wait, like they should’ve waited on the Carpenter extension. Wait, like they should’ve waited on the Goldschmidt extension. Wait, like they probably should’ve waited on the Mikolas extension. Wait to see how much more Yadi has aged, wait until you don’t have to by rule give him an overpay. Wait until November when you can give him a contract that aligns with the 38-year-old player he’ll be then — not the star he was three or four seasons ago.

    ———————-

    *Don’t anyone say “There’s no such thing as too much talent on a roster.” Tell that to Tommy Pham, who made the mistake of competing for playing time with Delicate Dexter Fowler, the 82 million dollar man. If the Cards retain Ozuna, it will not only unnecessarily cost them money and a high draft pick, but I’d bet a month’s rent it will sooner or later mean trading away some outfielder (or two or three) for much less than full value. Just like with Pham.

    #118256
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Bob, what you wrote about Molina made sense to me. When you started bringing in other players, you began to lose me, especially at the end.

    It could have been disastrous, especially given the talent the Cards gave up to get him, to let Goldschmidt reach free agency before trying to sign him. That would have been a terrible path to take. One should not hint that every early extension is bad. That is not the case, though we agree for Molina now.

    The direct tie of Pham’s departure to the bad contract given Fowler lacks substance, in my assessment. Seemed out of place here, anyway…

    #118277
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    Pham was never a team player. I saw him several seasons in Springfield and it was always Tommy first in his mind. Pham’s team was then and still is “Tommy’s Team” regardless of where he plays. His mouth precedes him.

    #118321
    Avatargscottar
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    Mo and Girsch were bailed out by the draft & development people in 2019, thanks to tremendous contributions from Flaherty, Hudson, Edman, Wong, and DeJong. The raft of bad contracts was gonna get the front office gutted in my opinion, if the club missed the playoffs for a fourth straight season. But perhaps that’s just wishful thinking. (Relatedly, the ubiquitous StL/Ozuna talk is really starting to give me a belly ache, a baseball ulcer, just like the Hosmer and Fowler speculation did — and somehow one of those horror stories came true, unfortunately. If they bring Ozuna back, throwing away the draft pick and blocking those talented young outfielders*, then they have learned exactly nothing from the Dexter debacle.)

    This is pure gold right here. If it weren’t for the lowly paid guys on the team the Cardinals wouldn’t have sniffed the playoffs in 2019.

    The Cardinals are very very good at developing young talent but when it comes time to write the big check we should all cover our heads under the pillow.

    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by Avatargscottar.
    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by Avatargscottar.
    #118327
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    This is pure gold right here. If it weren’t for the lowly paid guys on the team the Cardinals wouldn’t have sniffed the playoffs in 2019.

    The Bob Reed comments were spot on and I didn’t get lost at all. It was saying it like it is despite hitting some sore spots.

    It would not surprise me to see the FO giving Molina a carte blanche extension.

    #118336
    Avatargscottar
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    These recent comments got me to thinking about 2021 for a minute. Before anyone starts thinking that if we can just survive 2020 and get Cecil and Leake off the books we will finally have payroll flexibility next winter, think again. We won’t.

    Let’s do the math. As of now, the Cardinals already have $97.8M committed towards 2021. Let’s assume they bring Yadi back at $17M (mistake), Miller’s vesting option is $12M (and it will vest barring injury), Wong’s option is $12.5M (I assume they will do that), and then I am guessing we will have at least $20M in arbitration salaries (JMart, Gant, Hicks, Flaherty, Brebbia, Bader, Reyes, Munoz).

    97.8 + 17 + 12 + 12.5 + 20= 159.3M plus a few league minimum salary guys that will put us well over $160M, which means very little payroll flexibility AGAIN. It appears 2022 will be the first year where we will have the room to do much. Ugh.. 🙁

    #118387
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Dan Buffa advocates a spring extension to “keep Molina happy” – $20 MM for 2021 and a $10 MM option for 2022 plus $6 MM in incentives. He did not specify whose option it would be – team, player, mutual or vested. That matters.

    https://www.ksdk.com/article/sports/commentary/st-louis-cardinals-yadier-molina-contract-options-2020/63-ea4058b0-805e-46b1-8d96-43ace66a289d

    #118390
    AvatarGameCard
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    I don’t understand the term “vested option”. Please explain. Molina is already vested under MLB retirement.

    #118391
    Avatargscottar
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    A vesting option means the option is picked up automatically if the player reaches certain performance objectives such as plate appearances, innings pitched, not on the injured list, etc…..

    #118392
    AvatarGameCard
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    What are the performance objectives in Carpenter’s contract? He has a vesting option for 2021. In his case what does that mean?

    #118393
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    In that example, it means if he makes 1,100 plate appearances between this season and next, then the 2022 option becomes guaranteed.

    A side point, but true “performance” bonuses are not allowed. Examples would be so many hits or so many wins or strikeouts.

    (Note the above wording was corrected. Got my years mixed up. This is 2020!)

    #118394
    AvatarCardinals27
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    The vesting option would be for 2020, and 2021, right?

    #118399
    Avatargscottar
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    Yes Carp’s 1100 plate appearances are for 2020 and 2021 for the 2022 option to vest.

    #118400
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    The way I read it…it is a 2 yr… the contract is for a total of $39M and a vesting option for 2022.
    The details are listed as follows:
    2022 option vests with 1,100 plate appearances across 2020-2021
    If the option doesn’t vest, it becomes a $12M club option with a $2M buyout
    2022 Club option Plate Appearance Escalators (2021)
    $500,000 for 350
    $1M for 400, 450, 500, 550, 600, 650

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