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Donovan and Edman can play some OF as well if healthy.
As for Painter of the Phillies I think he is about to have TJ surgery.
Oneill, Monty OR Jack not both, Stratton, Ivan or Knizner, Burly, Yepez, Baker, DeJong, Contreras if he is as upset and willing to be traded
all squarely on the table and should be moved
it might not bring back the gamechangers, but it would at least free up roster spots and money for FA’s in the offseason
Most of the season problems came from lack of starting pitching which was known before the season started and FO’s over dependence on middling and aging starters
Combined with losing the entire starting OF was enormous
2024
Mikolas, Jack or Monty, FA SP, FA SP or traded for SP, Matz/Libertore/kids/etc.
Helsley, Gallegos, Hicks (power 3 back end keep it intact), Tepera, Thompson, Jojo, VanDerHagen, kid or vet FA
Edman- SS
Walker- RF/DH
Goldy- 1
Arenado- 3
Contreras- C
Gorman- DH/2b
Carlson- CF
Donovan- 2b/RF
Nootbaar- LF/RFIvan or Knizner, FA vet OF, FA or traded for SS/MI, FA or trade for corner IF or who isn’t trade (Baker/Yepez/Burly)
The team really isnt as far off as it seems
– 1 or 2 level SP (Nola?)
– a veteran innings eater SP
– a couple more dependable FA bench players and maybe a vet RPMost of the players on the team are just fine
major injuries to the OF was a nightmare for defense and forced out of position mostly kids players all over the place
add that to an already thin SP unit and the WBC and you have a terrible first half you saw
but if you watch the team, it isnt that far off
They have rattled off 8 of 10… and 5 straight and that isn’t NOTHING
They are one sweep of the Cubs from hitting that 8 in a row mark that Moz said he might reconsider
i think even with a split this weekend you have to reconsider the sale at least from what they thought
There is still plenty to move…but the returns might not have to be what he initially expected
At the end of the day…if you arent going to move Goldy or Arenado then you arent going to gut the team…
they are veterans and arent signed on for a rebuild…so you can’t rebuildand Moz has never been a huge mover and shaker in the offseason for multiple acquisitions, he tend to sign ONE FA, make ONE trade, and focus on extensions and a few under the radar things…that’s his wheelhouse
if he an make a trade now for one controllable pitcher, and maybe find a bench bat player and maybe a reliever in the trades now it will set him up to stay in his wheelhouse
– one premiere FA signing
– extensions
– and a trade for a bench bat or reliever or something to fill out the teamotherwise he will be forced to do multiple big FA signings and lots of trades to get the team back in contention next year to align with the ages of Goldy and Arenado
as for trade targets right now?
off the top of my head:
– target Jose Barerro with the Reds
still has upside, young, SS/CF mix, power and speed, has ZERO future with Reds with Elly and McClain and India holding the infield, yes it is intra-division but Reds i think have moved on from him and he is the type of upper level MLB ready player the Cardinals might be able to get and “fix”, taking on Wil Myers or Newman’s contract also could be a tactic to make it cheaper– target Michael Kopech from the White Sox
a little upside, swing and miss stuff, change of scenery candidate, control, lost his prospect luster so price might be attainable, and if he doesnt work out as starter his stuff could be used for the pen, i feel Burleson + lower level prospect for Kopech is close, but can add more if need be.– target Michael Lorenzen from Detroit
like Kopech but has less upside, still has swing or miss stuff, a return to central might do him good, starter or swing or bullpen is all possible, a bit of a gamble but arms are needed and versatile ones might be the best optionGscott- It really doesn’t matter if he’s having TJ if you are looking to get future upside starters instead of immediate help. That is why the Phillies may trade them. They are making a World Series push this year we get back cost controlled young talent.
I get your point and it makes sense. I just wanted to point that out that it might be a little while before he is back on a mound. It could potentially be a long term steal if the Phillies actually moved him.
My worry is next years rotation is actually going to be worse. Do we really trust that Mo can sign a free agent without going on the cheap? Who are the last starters he’s signed. I think it’s Leake, Matz and who else? Libertore has been not very good this year. Seems like they are depending on Hudson again for innings and hoping that Matz gets is better again?
The catcher market for sellers has seen two contenders lose one of their starting catchers.
The NYY lost Trevino for the season (wrist) who had made 49 starts in a tandem with Higashioka (45 GS).
The TBR expect Francisco Mejia to miss 3 to 6 weeks (left knee). Mejia had made 42 GS and Bethancourts 58 GS.
TB currently ranks 19th (bWAR), at catcher, and the NYY 24th. Along with the recent injuries it could also be an area where both may have wanted an upgrade.
CLE ranks 30th at catcher, HOU 27th, MIA 25th.
If O’Neill and Carlson are gone, then the outfield is Noot, Burly and Walker. That would be rough. Maybe they would get better as the season goes along and maybe not.
If you trade Carlson & O’Neill, you bring in a free agent outfielder to replace them. The outfield would be Nootbaar, Donovan + Free Agent. Burleson as backup OF/1B/DH.
Jordan Walker should not be playing the outfield. He is a DH, just like Jose Martinez and Juan Yepez.
LOL, Cubs fans are mocking how dysfunctional the Cardinals have become.
But there is one nugget here:
“The Cardinals have the greatest array of talent available with outfielders Carlson and O’Neill, infielders Tommy Edman and Paul DeJong, and catcher Willson Contreras on the block too. “
I would expect Edman and Carlson to get the best returns for the Cardinals.
If you trade Carlson & O’Neill, you bring in a free agent outfielder to replace them. The outfield would be Nootbaar, Donovan + Free Agent.
That would be quite ironic if it comes to pass. Mo traded Bader in light of a perceived glut of outfielders. And the same perception existed this spring and into the early part of the season. So all that shakes out to be one guy is playable, plus an infield UT and a FA needed to plug a hole.
That really sounds a lot like the rotation candidate laundry list. Lots of guys but nothing much there. Our talent evaluation really stinks. That makes being sellers pretty scary.
Just deal Dejong, for a bag of balls, or whatever, and add Winn fit the rest of the season. He is ready for the majors. Can’t wait to add him and Scott in centerfield.
Is it possible to trade Monty, Hicks and Dejong to Dodgers for Bobby Miller, or another top prospect, and a good relief prospect?
Whether it be at the deadline or over the winter, the Cardinals should be up on their toes and on the lookout for an opportunity to either trade for or sign any guy named Manny. If any Mannys at all are available, Johnny should pounce on it! Moreover, I’m entirely convinced that the valuable addition of a player named Manny will turn the fortunes of this team around and no current player on this roster should be off limits as a trade chip to acquire a Manny.
Is it possible to trade Monty, Hicks and Dejong to Dodgers for Bobby Miller
I doubt that exact deal would entice the Dodgers, but I agree Mo should be exploring a trade with them. They are known to be looking for a good starter and a good reliever and also a right handed bat, but probably an outfield bat, since they have all those left swinging outfielders.
The Rays are willing to do a Liberatore for Arozarena type deal, but the Cardinals don’t seem to. I mean trading a top prospect who is down low in the system, and therefore has more risk, for a good but lesser prospect higher in somebody’s system, with less risk but also less perceived potential ceiling. In that deal the Cardinals were getting a potential billion dollar lottery ticket with very long odds (because the guy was only in A level) and giving up a potential million dollar lottery ticket with better odds (guy at top of system).
LOL at suggesting that any time might be willing to give up some significant talent for DeJug.
I don’t think anyone is suggesting he’ll bring back anything “significant.”
Could he bring back a reliever? Possibly.
Could he bring back a low-level prospect? Yes.
And what does that do for the Cardinals? Saves them money and clears a path for Wynn (so they won’t be tempted to play the contract rather than the best player).
Agree. Bobby Miller is not coming to the Cardinals in a trade. He is in the Dodgers rotation.
You have to look for somebody at AA or AAA that hasn’t pitched at the MLB level this year.
Can’t wait to add him and Scott in centerfield.
I can image the FO thinking exactly the same. Scott is barely in AA but go ahead and chisel him into the future MLB lineup. He’ll be fine. What could go wrong.
I can remember exactly nobody writing Nootbaar into the future lineup when he was just getting out of A level ball. Guys at that level are a craps shoot.
Interesting comparison. Let’s look at some real numbers.
Scott already has 72 stolen bases in 83 tries in 115 career games to date. He has 34 extra-base hits.
In his entire minors career (212 games), Nootbaar had nine steals and was caught nine times. He had 45 XBH over 300 more plate appearances.
So, there is a good reason Scott is considered a better prospect at this point than Nootbaar was. Of course, there are no guarantees, but that should be understood as it is the case for every single prospect in the history of baseball.
I doubt the Cardinals are holding CF open for Scott or anyone else, but he is the next upcoming hope for stability at the position.
Yep, A level results doesn’t have reliable predictive value. It could be the anticipated guy or the unsung guy who becomes the next stability. Like Noot vs Carlson.
Notice the similarities with the Cardinals? You gotta give quality to get quality in return…
The Reds have told other teams they are willing to trade 2021 NL ROY Jonathan India for young, controllable starting pitching, per sources. Cincinnati has a glut of young infielders (Steer, De La Cruz, McLain, Encarnacion-Strand) with more on the way (Marte, Arroyo, Collier).
— Mark Feinsand (@Feinsand) July 24, 2023
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