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Contreras has full trade protection which would have to be bought out on top of his salary owed.
Knizner already had his shot when Yadi was out and didn’t deliver. If the Cards thought he could be the starter, they wouldn’t have signed Contreras in the first place. Nothing has changed since. Knizner now has almost 700 career plate appearances and seems to be what he is. Including 2023, he has never had an OPS+ of 80, which is 20% below league average.
Per source, another outfielder has surfaced as a potential Yankees trade target: Dylan Carlson. The Cardinals announced earlier today that Tyler O’Neill would take over the LF job upon his return from the IL, so a trade of the switch-hitting Carlson wouldn’t be surprising.
— Mark Feinsand (@Feinsand) July 18, 2023
O’Neill spends a couple of months on the IL and is announced as the starting LF’r upon return? That’s BS.
Sure they are trying to showcase him as healthy but he ain’t earned it. Just another out of touch w/reality decision from the Cardinals.
O’Neill having trade value is laughable. Just DFA the bum and let the regulars play.
Mo did not give a ringing endorsement of Contreras. He basically said “we will deal with that in the upcoming offseason.”
#STLCards president John Mozeliak didn't come right out and say it, but clearly he isn't happy with how things played out in Willson Contreras' first season in St. Louis. He indicated that changes are coming with how catchers prepare and handle pitchers in 2024. (MORE, 1/3)
— John Denton (@JohnDenton555) July 18, 2023
More Mozeliak on the #STLCards catching situation for 2024: "(cont.) … out of Herrera, which is good. But, ultimately, I think when we start thinking about 2024, some of those things will have to be more addressed in the offseason.”
(END, 3/3)
— John Denton (@JohnDenton555) July 18, 2023
Carlson on the move?
Fighting back tears because he knows the frustrating fate that awaits him once the crowded #STLCards outfield becomes whole, Dylan Carlson lamented his lack of opportunities to be an everyday player with a club that might deal him at the trade deadline. https://t.co/vTzIxuL12p
— John Denton (@JohnDenton555) July 18, 2023
I agree with the need for a rebuild, but it doesn’t have to be couched in public drama, like we’ve seen a few times already. It seems bush and un-Cardinal-like. From the FO on down to the clubhouse its been ragged.
i agree it wouldn’t be easy
but maybe Contreras WANTS to move on seeing some writing on the wall that FO seems unimpressed with him so far, and jumping ship might be best
i severely doubt it
as for Knizner and Ivan
i disagree Knizner was given a real shot, and even if so his early season numbers this year seem to show improvement at least with the eye test
not to mention who caress about hitting from the spot, we used to not care with Matheny and earlier as well as early Yadi…we got spoiled with YAdi becomign a hitter, but we shouldnt forget we didnt make him a starter because of his bat nor kept MAtheny back there so long because of it
also Ivan and Knizner platoon might be a halfway decent bit of offensive numbers as they grow
All i am saying is that if Contreras has wore out his welcome and there is big team with big money willing to take on his contract for a slight return, then maybe we should explore it seeing as we will obviously need/want funds to fix the pitching in the offseason
and even if Knizner and Ivan arent great at the plate they wont hurt the staff which seems to be a real issue with Contreras early on, AND we could always explore a different catcher in the winter if we wanted
If the Yankees or some other big spending team would take on all of the Contreras contract I would do it yesterday and I think Mo would too. I think we would be fine with a Herrera/Kiz combo and use the savings on more pitching.
Everybody else would shy away from a poor defensive catcher who has trouble managing pitchers. Especially for anything close to that money. I think his agent saw Mo coming a mile away. Its Ernie Broglio coming back at us.
The “talking heads” continue to mention Edman as a player that could be moved. I just do not see that being a viable option at this point. Winn appears to be the shortstop of the future. Will he be ready to play at the Major League level in 2024? I sure do not want to rush him the the majors … I want him to be ready to go.
If Edman is traded, is the club forced to retain DeJong as an insurance policy in the event Winn is not ready? Not sure Fermin is a starter … more likely a bench player that can provide good defense.
1964 said:
1) If Edman is traded, is the club forced to retain DeJong as an insurance policy in the event Winn is not ready?
2) Not sure Fermin is a starter … more likely a bench player that can provide good defense.
1) No. They could pick up a free agent veteran type shortstop (think Rafael Furcal) to be insurance if they think it will be needed. In the meantime, they have 2 1/2 more months to evaluate Winn, who will have a full season of Triple-A experience by the end of the year and is steadily improving.
2) Agreed.
When I think of Furcal, I think the Cardinals don’t win anything without him in ’11. Of course, anyone could say that about countless pieces that had to fall precisely into place for the Redbirds to make that historic sprint to the neck and neck photo finish to that regular season. At any rate, the Redbirds went 34-16 after he dressed out in a Cardinal uniform and the wide open, full throttle charge to the finish line seemed to correspond with the moment he arrived from the Dodgers.
Feinsand thinks O’Neill taking over LF (and pushing Carlson to a 4th OF’r role) makes Carlson available in trade. I think it’s the opposite. Imo, O’Neill is being showcased.
This is the same scenario we started the season with, Carlson as the 4th outfielder, and that was a mistake back then. We tried chaos in the outfield and it was ugly.
Carlson is our best defensive centerfielder and has a 100 ops+ in 203 PA’s this season (103 career ops+). For his career to date he has logged 2.6 bwar per 600 PA’s, and has equal positive batting and fielding runs. I’m good w/that in CF.
O’Neill needs to be shown the door. I hope he homers every game up to the deadline and makes it easy to move him. Absolutely no way I’d endorse tendering his arb3 salary next season so he can ride the IL with his back pain.
Lets not forget CF and C are positions of scarcity during free agency. You get a decent one, you pay dearly. And, with the frequency of injuries to CF’rs (Carlson, Edman) it’s better to have depth, than trade from it.
Trading from our lineup core does not make us better, in fact, it’s all we have going for us.
Yeah jj, Carlson always looks good out there in CF with the mitt. In my view, he’s unquestionably the best OF’er on this roster. There’s no mistaking that you’re watching a genuine Big League calibre OF’er whenever he chases one down. He glides to the general area in a manner a little reminiscent of Jimmy Edmonds.
I think we need to accept that the Cards do not like Carlson in CF. They played an infielder there rather than him. They gave Mercado reps there when Carlson was available. They play Noot there ahead of him. They tried O’Neill there. Fit a mit on a kitchen sink it would be ahead of Carlson. Why? Who knows. It doesn’t have to make sense, appparently.
Tampa designated RHP Yonny Chirinos … you gotta think he can help the Cards this year and next. You get him for the rest of this season, arb eligible in 2024 and a Free Agent in 2025.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/chiriyo01.shtml
Sometimes the other teams don’t want the players we want to get rid of. The Yankees are in need of an outfielder so naturally they are going to ask for Carlson over O’Neill. It takes two to tango.
If the Cardinals were to trade Carlson to the Yankees, I’d be asking for Drew Thorpe, Will Warren and Clayton Beeter in return.
If the Cardinals were to trade Jordan Montgomery to the Dodgers, the asking price should be at least Landon Knack + Nick Nastrini
Sometimes the other teams don’t want the players we want to get rid of. The Yankees are in need of an outfielder so naturally they are going to ask for Carlson over O’Neill. It takes two to tango.
True.
How I look at it is TON is a non-tender candidate this offseason. By cutting him, you will save $5 million you can use on a productive member of the team (hopefully). So, you trade him for a low-level prospect and get something instead of nothing.
If you can trade both TON & DeJong at the deadline for low-level prospects, you save $17 million next year. You can then use that savings on an outfielder like Bellinger, Pederson, Soler, Gallo or Conforto.
We could theoretically move all three of O’Neill, Carlson, and DeJong and still have everything covered for next year. Gorman can play 2B, Donovan can play 2B and LF, Edman can play 2B, SS, and CF, Walker can play RF and LF, Noot can play all three OF spots, and Burleson can play LF and RF.
Winn might be given a shot at SS next year and we could also sign another veteran IF/OF depth piece.
How about Montgomery to the Phillies for Abel or Painter? They were said to be looking into his injury to see how it was a few weeks ago. Though honestly we screwed up by not trying to extend him after last year.
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