January 6, 2021 at 1:05 pm #151231
We are basically in the same position. However, we will once again be relying on a bunch of guys ALL stepping up. Is O’Neill ready to step up or not? Is DeJong going to continue having a month of hot hitting and a couple of months of poor hitting? Is Carlson going to step up to his promise? Is Gorman going to step up to his promise? Are we going to have enough hitting that we don’t need Bader to hit better?
I know that I am proposing a trade for someone who is also unproven. However, I would like to acquire someone who is a contact hitter (Adell or Marsh may not be it) who is more likely to be a good hitter. O’Neill, Gorman, DeJong and Bader all have enough swing and miss to question whether they will get close to their ceiling. I think Carlson will get close to his ceiling.January 6, 2021 at 3:24 pm #151233
I’d love to have a player like Kelenic or Kirilloff, but it takes two to tango. Teams are rarely willing to trade young position players like that, even for superstar players. It’s possible the best choice if you are wanting to get one is to find a player who’s a year away from really blowing up. That’s where Juan Soto was when I was hoping the Cards might trade for him several years ago.
Otherwise, I say just keep Jack and spend the money on an upgrade. You don’t think a lineup with Goldy, Dejong, Lindor/Seager/Correa, Gorman, Carlson, Bader/O’Neill, Yadi/Herrera and perhaps a trade target like Nimmo or Kepler would be a viable lineup for a real contender?January 6, 2021 at 4:57 pm #151235
That would be a viable lineup. I question whether the Cardinals will sign Lindor, Seager or Correa. Then we are relying on a majority of our in house players to step up enough. It’s just a difference of how we see things going in the next 1-3 years.
In the long run, I think we waste our time with Flaherty.January 6, 2021 at 5:35 pm #151237
I will say that apart from the pandemic raging into this year and next with no fans in the stands, the Cards will not run a team out there with a payroll in the Pirates range. They will sign some sort of corner store player next year, or make a trade for one. I know you question that because it doesn’t seem like it’s been done before, but the Cards hadn’t sold mid season for a long time before they traded off Pham and Voit mid season 2018, plus the Mercado trade. They hadn’t traded for a true star in a while before they got Goldy. They hadn’t made a prospect for prospect trade since who knows when before the Liberatore-Arozarena trade. If you have the kind of money the Cards should have to spend, someone will find it in their heart to accept it.
As far as wasting time with Flaherty, you may be right when thinking 5-6 years out, but in the next three years he’s a cheap, young, very good pitcher. At best you would get a prospect who could or could not pan out. The Cubs will be down for 2-3 years. The Pirates, Reds and Brewers may as well and won’t consistently have the payroll to compete with the Cards anyway. It would be foolish to trade away a big talent and punt on multiple years with the division there for the taking.January 6, 2021 at 6:00 pm #151238
Of course, my long run is 3 years with Flaherty. I still firmly believe he will be gone for the 2024 season.January 6, 2021 at 6:06 pm #151239
And that’s OK if it works out that way. If he remains good or gets even better, and the Cards win 2-3 Central titles and an NL pennant, no one will say it was a waste to keep him even if they only get a draft pick for compensation. They could then go after a big fish on the market if they so wanted.January 6, 2021 at 6:28 pm #151242
In three years, his age 25-27 seasons, Flaherty should give you 100 or more starts. Those are a lot of potential wins.January 7, 2021 at 11:28 am #151264
The New York Mets are deep into talks on a deal to acquire Francisco Lindor from the Cleveland Indians, sources tell ESPN.
— Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) January 7, 2021January 7, 2021 at 11:45 am #151267
Makes a ton of sense. The Mets have the money and the talent to send over. I’d bet on Nimmo being someone the Cleveland Baseball Team gets back. Lindor wants to be a big city star, so he’ll get the chance.January 7, 2021 at 12:11 pm #151272January 7, 2021 at 12:20 pm #151275thejagerParticipantPaid - Annual
deal seems pretty light to me…especially given Carassco is in the deal too
what would a Cardinals similar deal look like?
Edman, Thompson, Thomas, Oviedo
hard to consider since they are giving them 2 controllable young SS’s
but as that tweet has…their top prospect is another SS in Mauricio… so what did they really give up that they didnt need?January 7, 2021 at 2:01 pm #151279
Jager, maybe with the two headliners both going in one direction, the return players seems light. It’s also 3 seasons for 20+ seasons. I like Gimenez, Rosario not so much, but maybe a couple of those 4 young players will be headliners 3 to 5 seasons from now also.
CLE sent 41.6mil for 40.1mil, and that CLE received 71% of their return value in Gimenez.January 7, 2021 at 2:01 pm #151280
The economic issues of today are the reason why the deal seems light. For smart teams, there’s huge opportunity to acquire top flight talent.
Also, one year of control makes a big difference. We didn’t give up full value for Goldy either.January 7, 2021 at 2:04 pm #151281
Willingness to take on salary is the new in-efficiency.January 7, 2021 at 2:12 pm #151282
I think the big miss for Cleveland is that they still don’t have any OF help coming. Our OF looks incredible by comparison.January 7, 2021 at 2:35 pm #151283
Per spotrac, Cleveland has a salary total of $22,950,000 for next year.January 7, 2021 at 2:56 pm #151284gscottarParticipantPaid - Annual
Cleveland now has a payroll of $36.4M for 2021 per Cot’s. Dead last.January 7, 2021 at 3:14 pm #151285
To put the current CLE 36.4mil salary in context, CLE paid 36.2mil last season AFTER salaries were pro-rated.January 7, 2021 at 3:26 pm #151286
The $22,950,000 apparently is for the non minimum salary players (6 of them). Adding in the minimum salary players makes up the rest of the $36,400,000.
The last time anyone had a team salary lower than that appears to be 2013, when the Marlins and Astros were both less.January 7, 2021 at 6:15 pm #151294
I’d like to see:
1) Martinez, O’Neill to Houston for Brett Conine and ???.
Houston has a need for pitching, only a 1 year commitment if he turns around then they have the option to bring him back, and their whole starting OF is free agents.
2) Woodford, Oviedo, Nunez to Colorado for Story
3) sign Molina (1 yr + option), Wainwright (1 yr), Joc Pederson (1 yr with incentives + option), utiliy guy
4) Webb and Williams kept for now, but probably DFA if they make it through spring healthy.
1. Edman 2B (S)
2. Pederson LF (L)
3. Goldschmidt 1B (R)
4. Story SS (R)
5. Carlson CF (S)
6. DeJong 3B (R)
7. Molina C (R)
8. Fowler RF (S)
Sosa, Carpenter, UTIL?, Bader, Knizner
1. Edman 2B (S)
2. Carlson LF (S)
3. Goldschmidt 1B (R)
4. Story SS (R)
5. DeJong 3B (R)
6. Molina C (R)
7. Fowler RF (S)
8. Bader CF (R)
Flaherty, Kim(L), Mikolas, Gomber(L), Wainwright
Poncedeleon, Helsley, Cabrera(L), Gant, Reyes, Miller(L), Gallegos, HicksJanuary 7, 2021 at 6:30 pm #151295
Out of curiosity, why do people dislike Tyler Webb so much? I wouldn’t want to rely on him as the top lefty, but he’s been pretty solid here as the second lefty with 1.109 WHIP and 3.03 ERA in his time here. He’s been very tough on lefties with a .523/.517/.306 run of OPS allowed in his three seasons. Certainly not DFA worthy in my book.January 7, 2021 at 7:34 pm #151298
Gotta be careful with Spotrac’s totals, as noted.
It is something with Webb’s hair? 😉January 7, 2021 at 7:55 pm #151303
Don’t dislike him, but don’t see where he fits and has no options. I hold on as long as possible. But if Miller and Cabrera are healthy to start the season I think he gets DFA/Traded.January 7, 2021 at 8:43 pm #151305
If Mikolas isn’t ready I could see Webb still making the team. Poncedeleon or Reyes could start instead and keeping Webb on the team in the pen.January 7, 2021 at 9:06 pm #151307
It would seem to be unlikely that the team could get through spring training with no injuries, but unless someone really wanted him in a trade, I couldn’t see them letting him go. I’d imagine a younger pitcher like Helsley or Cabrera may be sent down for a few weeks until needed to “season” a bit.
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