January 8, 2021 at 1:12 am #151308
Minor point 667, Williams doesn’t need to be DFA’d, as he is not on the Cards 40 man roster.January 8, 2021 at 8:15 am #151315
The roster matrix disagrees. He’s in bold as a 40man member.January 8, 2021 at 9:03 am #151323
That would be a lot of moves 667. Keep in mind that Steve Cohen is not our owner and JJ Preller is not our PBO/GM so good luck with that.
If we got Story I guess that means DeJong moves to 3B and once again Gorman is blocked. Why is everyone so obsessed with blocking our number one prospect?
January 8, 2021 at 9:30 am #151328
- This reply was modified 1 week, 1 day ago by gscottar.
Yes, DeJong moves, no doubt about it. DeJong can play 2B/3B/SS just like Edman. If Gorman is all that he’ll force his way into the lineup at whoever’s expense, and the lineup gets better.January 8, 2021 at 9:43 am #151330stlcard25ParticipantPaid - Annual
I have Dejong penciled into 2B down the road anyway, or traded. He’s not the fastest guy and while he could play 3B, I think Gorman pushes him out of there. 2B will allow him to still occupy a relatively important defensive position but not be the main cog in the defense when he loses a step.January 8, 2021 at 9:47 am #151331
Has DeJong or Gorman actually ever played 2B? If so, how much? It is easy to move people around on paper but not as easy in reality.January 8, 2021 at 10:02 am #151335
2B was DeJongs primary position in college. 3B was his primary position in the minors. SS has been his primary position at mlb, out of necessity. If DeJong can hold down SS, he can handle a familiar 2B easily. This isn’t Skip Schumaker going to 2B. SS was more foreign to DeJong than 2B or 3B, and he has played an admirable SS.January 8, 2021 at 10:03 am #151336
25…i get your points… makes sense…
however my point is really that I am surprised we couldn’t have offered something similar or maybe even more appealing
now i know it’s 21.5m…and Carassco is 12 m (with another 12 12 14 on the contract)…but if we WERE to move off of Waino at least….Carrasco is a solid vet to do so and his price isnt terrible..and given Mikolas is no slam dunk, and neither is Kim (plus he is gone after next year)…and Hudson returning in 22 is always a concern, not to mention Gomber and Ponce and Cmart are all not slam dunks..and Libertore and Thompson are still prospects….having a solid arm for the rotation might not be the worst thing to snag right now…
sure it was a salary dump so they don’t want to take on much back…but i think we could have argued to include at least SOME money on a player from our side going that way if we offered a bit more value in prospects or players
we snagged Goldy for a pretty good players and that was 1yr…and way more IMO than what the Mets gave up…as that was a hope to get his extension…
maybe the FO doesnt have the confidence they could convince Lindor…that is pretty depressing to me
we do have more OF guys we can offer up…
Let’s say we offered:
Fowler and CMart at half price
They get almost 6 ready to go players for cheap…still come out 20m ahead and have no commitment in money after 21 unless they want it with CMart (who could very easily turn it around as he is so enigmatic)…yes it requires Fowler to accept the trade…
my point isn’t even any of the specific players here on our side… it is just that I think we have the assets to make a solid deal…probably a better one…and while we’d only have 1yr to extend Lindor..we WILL have the freed up money to actually go very big to do so post 21…so we could flex that all year…
Heck…we could maybe even extend him in ST…work the deal into the current contract…if you can do that…maybe he’d take a dip in 21 pay for a bigger deal after…might be a way to help 21 AND give him the big payday and spotlight he wants…and deserves IMO…
It would be a gamble no doubt…but the consolation prize of a reasonably priced veteran pitcher in Carassco is not the worst thing…as long as he holds upJanuary 8, 2021 at 10:04 am #151337
ok…i promise i am not spamming…so i have 2 more posts…
Sugano staying in Japan for 4yr 40m from Yomuri.
perplexing to me…i can’t believe no one would offer him better than that…January 8, 2021 at 10:42 am #151340
Back to Cleveland…regardless of Lindor…
If they are this desperate to move money….now might be the perfect time to go after their other great hitter…who plays at a position we could use help at…AND has a very reasonable if not entire STEAL of a price at 9-12-14m….AND is locked in for 21 with two CLUB options for 22 and 23 (his 29-30 yrs of age)
Would be VERY expensive in talent going back…but is a difference maker hitter, and is in his prime, cheap, and can be cut loose whenever and even before his decline happens or we can try to extend at a decent extension age of 30 or less…
yes, it blocks Gorman to play 3b…but let’s not act like defense is the reason we are excited about Gorman….and with the DH being inevitable…Gorman OR Goldy (start Gorman on learning 1b or OF) for DH makes sense… and doesn’t hamper his arrival much if at all
What would it take?
My no’s are Herrera, Carlson, Libertore, Gorman
build a deal not including them and I am happy to figure it out and gamble on the consequences…and i would include ant but Carlson or Gorman if the deal was sweet enough…
Bader/Thomas/Oneill (any or 2 even)
Could we make a deal work without the 4?
Would we have to lose Edman to make it work? If so, we’d have to bring in another IF as i think Carp’s days are gone at 2b, and Sosa seems better as backup
If Cleveland did this woudl they also might as well deal Plesac as this woudl put them in full rebuild mode and his value will never be higher.January 8, 2021 at 11:50 am #151343stlcard25ParticipantPaid - Annual
I think for Cleveland to want to trade Ramirez, we would have to give up either Gorman or Carlson as part of the deal. His contract is very good and he’s been consistently good basically since his 2016 breakout. Even his down 2019 (106 OPS+) had a terrible first half (.652 OPS) and great second half (1.105 OPS).
Probably something like Nolan Gorman, Thomas/Bader/O’Neill and a pitcher or two may get it done.January 8, 2021 at 12:02 pm #151345
FROM Brians Rule 5 draft article:
Cards again quiet in Major League Phase
After two consecutive years in which the Cardinals came into the Major League Phase of the Rule 5 Draft with a full 40-man roster – meaning they had to abstain from making selections – St. Louis was prepared to participate in 2020.
But selection of players was hardly guaranteed. A lot depended on which players were left on the board by the time the Cardinals picked at no. 19. They ended up passing.
As noted above, no Cardinals were taken in the Major League Phase this year, either. Among those potentially most interesting, but were passed over are catcher Julio Rodriguez, outfielder Jhon Torres, pitcher Alvaro Seijas and infielders Evan Mendoza and Delvin Perez.January 8, 2021 at 12:03 pm #151346
So the Roster Matrix needs updated, no big deal.January 8, 2021 at 1:52 pm #151349
27, All those players were eligible to be taken in the mlb rule5 because they aren’t on the 40man (protected). Williams was added to the 40man by the Rays, and his status carried over to STL.January 8, 2021 at 1:55 pm #151350
As a member you can click on his picture and get his bio page, which also lists him as a 40man member.January 8, 2021 at 1:58 pm #151351
I think you are probably right…i was hoping to not include a bopper like Gorman…but i think you are right…
and to me…i think you do it anyways. Gorman is good, but no absolute guarantee for Ramirez level production. And with Ramirez’s age i think it would be worth it, and maybe even extended a couple of years if need be… there will be more drafts and Ramirez isn’t paid like the star hitter he is, that diminishes the cost benefit of having Gorman around
Gorman, Bader, Oviedo, Woodford? (Woodford might not be high enough, but we have several options here…i just trry to stay away from Thompson and Libertore def.
Ramirez replaces need for Gorman to some degree, and his price allows us to complement him if need be
Bader is replaced by Thomas or ONeill
Oviedo has good value but we have others
Woodford is depth but seems a useful part and maybe a #5, maybe you include Ponce here instead?
Ramirez is worth itJanuary 8, 2021 at 2:01 pm #151352
Never mind, my bad, we are talking different Williams’. I was thinking you meant LHP Garret.January 8, 2021 at 2:05 pm #151353
The only hope I have for Justin Williams is that his bat could be strong enough to be a DH, if there is one in 2021.January 8, 2021 at 2:08 pm #151354
I think cards667 grouped Webb and Williams together because both are out of options and possibly couldn’t make the roster in his proposal. all good.January 8, 2021 at 2:20 pm #151357
I just thought we were talking about LH relievers. PDL and Sosa being out of options also. Along with the likelihood of a 26 man roster diminishes spots to keep all of them.January 8, 2021 at 3:43 pm #151359
2B was DeJongs primary position in college. 3B was his primary position in the minors. SS has been his primary position at mlb, out of necessity. If DeJong can hold down SS, he can handle a familiar 2B easily. This isn’t Skip Schumaker going to 2B. SS was more foreign to DeJong than 2B or 3B, and he has played an admirable SS.
Fair enough. I just hope everyone proposing to move players around the diamond realize it is more difficult than moving chess pieces on a board. Defense matters. Even if we are desperate for offense.January 8, 2021 at 6:49 pm #151373
Moves to the right on the defensive spectrum are considered harder. DeJong has already accomplished this by going to SS. Moves to the left are considered easier. It’s just a general rule of thumb, but surprisingly accurate.January 8, 2021 at 9:50 pm #151377Cards667ParticipantFree
“I think cards667 grouped Webb and Williams together because both are out of options and possibly couldn’t make the roster in his proposal. all good”
Thats exactly what I did. Without injuries causing an opening to keep them and I’m still not sure that keeps Justin Williams (eliminate confusion) with Thomas and Dean being options too.
“That would be a lot of moves 667. Keep in mind that Steve Cohen is not our owner and JJ Preller is not our PBO/GM so good luck with that.
If we got Story I guess that means DeJong moves to 3B and once again Gorman is blocked. Why is everyone so obsessed with blocking our number one prospect?”
I know it would be a lot of moves, but I also don’t think any of it will happen. It’s just what I would like to see. Shake up things and get some offense and make a serious push at winning. Cubs and Reds unloading, Pirates down, don’t think Milwaukee is a serious contender. I just would like to shake it up and make a serious push at winning and not the whole we’ll be competitive and hope for the best.
Yes, Story would push DeJong to 3B, where he primarily played in the minors. I don’t think DeJong is a bad SS, but think his hands and arm could be a plus at 3B.
I also don’t think a trade for a SS or 3B is necessarily “blocking Gorman”. Prospects miss way more than hit. Gorman essentially missed competition in 2020 and hasn’t played above A+. Where the errors were high and the K% was something along the lines of 32% and 5% BB rate. The minors are going to be delayed again this year, Gorman probably is slated for AA anyway. Blocking a players path on a win now team isn’t an issue to me. I believe Gorman played SS in high school. I’ve read he has the athleticism to play 2B or corner OF. DeJong can also play 2B. Edman can shift back to super utility if playing everyday doesn’t work. As LaRussa used to say, “things have a way of working themselves out”. Story only has 1 year remainin, giving them a win now player who could possibly be signed long term, with Fowler, Carpenter both being free agents after 2021, and giving them another year to judge if Montero is a 3B, what they have in Gorman and if he sticks at 3B, is DeJong going to ever be the bat he shows flashes of or is he the 84 OPS+ of last season, which isn’t going to block Gorman anyway.January 9, 2021 at 3:11 pm #151406Brian WaltonKeymasterPaid - AnnualJanuary 10, 2021 at 7:36 pm #151481Brian WaltonKeymasterPaid - Annual
I am not going to start a LeMahieu thread just based on this. The Cardinals reach out to most top free agents to gather information.
From Yahoo’s Tim Brown:
The 32-year-old LeMahieu has, therefore, asked his representatives to re-engage with teams that have previously shown the most interest, the source said, among them the Los Angeles Dodgers, Toronto Blue Jays and New York Mets, and to reconnect with teams that reached out early in the free agent period, including the Atlanta Braves, St. Louis Cardinals, Boston Red Sox and others.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.