Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors – 2021-2023

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  • #221886
    gscottar
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    My guess is that the Cardinals will want a starter with team control next year which would rule out Nola and Giolito. Usually when we trade for starters without team control it is the basement bin variety like LeBlanc, Happ, Lester, or Quintana.

    #221887
    Oliver
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    Just say no to Lynn

    #221888
    gscottar
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    Lynn’s stats are down this year but the previous two years he would probably have been our ace. He wouldn’t cost much in prospects to get but it seems to me that he had some unflattering comments about the Cardinals in recent years so that might scuttle things with Mo.

    #221892
    Cardinals27
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    Hand or Chapman would be great fits to give us more bullpen depth. But the FO better do it soon, because other teams are bound to swoop in and get them.

    #221894
    stlcard25
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    My guess is that the Cardinals will want a starter with team control next year which would rule out Nola and Giolito. Usually when we trade for starters without team control it is the basement bin variety like LeBlanc, Happ, Lester, or Quintana.

    I’d hope we would have learned a lesson at some point that you give up quality to get quality. Even a top guy as a rental wouldn’t cost you a ton. Perhaps something like Burleson, Bernal and a pitching prospect. You can’t expect a ton for a half of a season of work.

    #221900
    gscottar
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    According to the trade simulator here are the trade values for each starter we have been discussing:

    Bieber: 61.5
    Cease: 61.5
    Nola: 41.9
    Giolito:20.8
    Lynn: 7.6
    Sale: minus.6

    #222008
    stlcard25
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    A couple months less of each guy should knock some millions off that list. I’d trade Edman for Nola or Giolito if Dejong still looks playable then.

    #222012
    gscottar
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    A couple months less of each guy should knock some millions off that list. I’d trade Edman for Nola or Giolito if Dejong still looks playable then.

    I would do that as well then they could trade Yepez for Lynn and trade Burly for Sale.

    To get Bieber or Cease you probably have to give up someone like Gorman, Walker, or Winn.

    #222068
    blingboy
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    We could get Bieber and Cease without losing anything we need.

    Walker and a throw in like Hudson or Naughton for one of them.

    Wynn and Carlson for the other.

    I know, boo hoo hoo, but you don’t get something for nothing, and we need top of rotation starters more.

    #222081
    GameCard
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    Trade Winn & O’Neill for one of them.

    #222086
    Brian Walton
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    Seems like trading one of their top two prospects would be a huge change. Trading both ain’t likely at all, IMO. This is not a “push all your chips into the center of the table” kind of organization.

    #222092
    jj-cf-stl
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    We don’t have a rotation worthy of the postseason. Trading away an Edman, Walker or Winn is a sideways transaction. We don’t get better, we just rob Peter to pay Paul for pitching and we’re simply shuffling the deck chairs.

    Trade PDJ for whatever value he brings before the deadline, but, for 2024 or beyond value. Keep Winn. Edman and Gorman up the middle.

    DFA O’Neill when Walker is ready. Donovan to LF, Carlson in CF, Noot in RF. Walker eventually, and the three above, are the four outfielders going forward. Donovan to the infield if there is an injury.

    Yepez, Burleson and Baker can fight it out for DH. Burleson is the 5th outfielder. Catcher, backup catcher, 1B and 3B are set.
    ——-
    I have no grand delusions about the 23′ postseason. Let the season play out. Don’t be stupid Mo, by trying to save face and mortgaging future starters for temp pitching. Fix the pitching this winter by free agency.
    ——-
    Wainwright retires. Montgomery, Flaherty, VerHagen, Stratton and Hicks are all FA’s-to-be, let them walk. DFA Hudson and O’Neill (above). PDJ has been traded. That is 57.31 mil of 2023 salaries reclaimed.

    Cots shows Arenado at 2.2mil less and Mikolas at 2.75mil less. 57.31 now becomes 62.26mil.
    ——-
    Matz gets a 2mil raise, Contreras 8mil and GG 1mil in 2024. 62.26 now becomes 51.26mil
    I estimate Edman, Helsley, Kiz, Cabrera, Carlson and Woodford to total 6.51 in arb raises. 51.26 now becomes 44.75 and I estimate strong to make sure it’s covered.
    ——–
    There is 45mil of reclaimed 2023 payroll for this winter, and we ranked 15th in opening day payroll. If the payroll isn’t frozen, there’s a minimum of 50mil to buy two SP’rs to go with Mikolas, Liberatore and Matz.
    ——-
    We could QO Monty, but his 23′ will make that decision.

    #222097
    blingboy
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    This is not a “push all your chips into the center of the table” kind of organization.

    I do not think it is a matter of pushing all the chips into the middle or not doing so. Gambling the future on prospects who have yet to pan out in MLB is a risky proposition. Especially when put against MLB proven talent. Two birds in hand may be less of a gamble than two in the bush.

    I would make two points. First, I have not heard any other proposal which would land proven heft for the top of our rotation. Much less any proposal that does not cost one or more proven daily contributors to be replaced by as yet unproven hopefuls. Second, my proposal for Bieber and Cease does not rely on hoping guys will do something they have so far not done, namely be consistently productive at the MLB level. They are already proven top MLB performers.

    #222115
    stlcard25
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    We gambled the future on Ozuna not too long ago, and lost two aces. One trade, one free agent makes great sense to me.

    #222116
    blingboy
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    We also traded for Goldschmidt and Arenado. Sometimes prospects pan out and sometimes they don’t. Sometimes a proven performer doesn’t pan out. Those are the chances to be taken. What is certain is we need quality for the top of our rotation, and it takes quality to get quality.

    #222122
    gscottar
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    We didn’t trade away top prospects for Goldy and Arenado. Somehow Mo fleeced Arizona and Colorado by sending them non-elite prospects. We gave up Weaver, Kelly, Montero and a couple of others. They weren’t bad prospects but they weren’t on the level of Walker and Winn. I don’t see any way we trade those two.

    Perhaps every other prospect we have would be on the table in addition to Burly, Yepez, Edman, PDJ, O’Neill, and Carlson.

    #222126
    blingboy
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    I don’t see any way we trade those two.

    I don’t either, but my point is we could stoke the top of our rotation like that if we wanted to. There is an element of risk either way. Prospects may pan out or they may not. My thinking is we will struggle with a poor rotation for the foreseeable future. We will trade lesser talent for lesser talent. We will sign low hanging fruit. See the last couple years for the template.

    #222127
    stlcard25
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    The last couple of years we won 94 and 90 games, so the template may have appeared to work. This year, we will probably struggle to get above .500. I think the template will have to change, unless we’re gonna have a $120M payroll next year.

    #222128
    stlcard25
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    That said, I agree that we theoretically could improve the rotation via trade without damaging the big league roster. That may prove painful in a couple of years, but it is doable.

    #222144
    gscottar
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    Then if Walker and Winn go on an Arozarena-type tear our fan base will explode with rage. I don’t think Mo will go down that road. The only way land a true ace is getting out of the comfort zone in free agency and spend the big bucks. Not likely to happen.

    We will just need to keep trying to acquire the number 2 and 3 types and hope they overperform instead of underperform. Also, it would help if we could develop a high end pitcher from within. It has been awhile. Graceffo’s injury looks alarming. Perhaps McGreevy, Hjerpe, or Mautz will become something.

    #222151
    blingboy
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    We will just need to keep trying to acquire the number 2 and 3 types

    We know that the price for a year and a half rental of a #3 type .500ish starter is a gold glove everyday starting center fielder. Or equivalent, presumably. I’m not sure how sustainable, or palatable, that strategy will be. I’m not sure it is even doable.

    #222155
    gscottar
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    And there aren’t many ace types who will be free agents at the end of the year. Ohtani, Nola, and Giolito is all I can think of before you get to the middle of the rotation types and Giolito is probably closer to Mikolas than he is to Ohtani and Nola. Regardless, we would have to open the checkbook wide to even get into those conversations. That doesn’t seem likely.

    A more likely scenario is we bring back either Monty or Jack and then try to pull off a trade for a Bieber or Sale.

    #222157
    jj-cf-stl
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    “doesn’t seem likely”

    Likely, has put us in the situation we are in. A losing record, 4th in the division and 23rd in mlb.

    Our lineup is performing at near peak. It’s much more “likely” that the lineup cools off, than that the pitching gets better.

    Without acquiring top of market pitching via free agency this winter, I’d expect more of the same. Time for Bill to step out of his comfort zone.

    #222879
    thejager
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    It’s feeling like another midyear SP jolt is coming

    Bieber and Paxton feel like snags that could happen

    Bieber being the Monty type of deal
    and
    Paxton the expiring contract veteran looking to to get a contract in the offseason through good performance

    Mik
    Bieber
    Monty
    Waino
    Paxton

    Jack and Libertore (and Matz) to pen or split 6th man

    It’s not a perfect idea, but the way this year has been going (and like the last two years) it seems the FO is willing to sacrifice the first half of the year in hopes that the starters ascend only to find out they need to buy rentals at the deadline

    Cost saving? probably….and in the central nowadays (and like the last 2 years) maybe all you need to do is stay close for the first half and turn it on for the second

    If we do a Bieber move…which “feels” like a Moz move… I wonder if we could find a way to get Kwan in the deal, he has come down from his amazing last year, but i think the StL fans would love him and he still has some upside, but his contact rate is great and defense is wonderful. We tend to have an all out defender on the club and we don’t have one…if that defender can HIT…that’s golden

    No reason for CLE to move him, but with our farm I wonder if we could make it happen

    #222881
    gscottar
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    I think Bieber would be a step up from Monty. Bieber would immediately become our number one starter. It would take much more than a Bader type player to get him.

Viewing 25 posts - 1,776 through 1,800 (of 2,445 total)
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