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Part 2
-Waino…moves on. Retirement, the booth, another team…I’m not sure. He’d be a bargain most likely at his salary but he’s a #3/4 at this point, which we have in spades. We can use the money better elsewhere. (Payroll $130M)
-Stratton gets non tendered. This saves around $4M (Payroll $126M). I’m tempted to non tender Hudson too, but I think he could bounce back after the off year post-TJ.
-Call Cleveland about Bieber. They probably won’t be keen on trading their ace unless overwhelmed…so that’s exactly what we do. It’ll be painful, but send O’Neill, Burleson, and Hence to them. Cleveland has a bad OF and Hence is an enticing piece (who could be an ace but is so raw that it’s hard to project it at this point). (Salary $132M)
-I’m not stopping there! I’m serious about upgrading this rotation with ace quality arms. Sign Carlos Rodon to a 5 year, $115M deal. That’s what Ray got last year so I’ll project around the same here. Maybe a touch more or less, but in the ballpark. This would cost a draft pick, which the Cards usually don’t do. But we want a dominant team, not a sneaky one. This will move one of our starters to the bullpen…which we will get to. (Salary $155M)
-We need some lefty thump now, and probably another OFer. They could run Yepez out there or convert one of our IF guys, but I’d be in favor of signing someone. I’m going for Michael Conforto, on a 2 year/$25M deal. First year at $10M, mutual option after the first year for $15M. Jordan Walker may be ready early, but if so it’s a nice issue to have. If you’re afraid of Conforto, I guess there’s Bellinger or Pederson as a fallback. (Salary $165M)
Part 3
-At this point I think you could stop and have a really strong team. Maybe you look to upgrade the pen, but I think the starting pitching moves a good arm to the pen anyway. Perhaps you upgrade catcher (nuclear option: Willson Contreras). The Jays catchers are intriguing but if they want lefty OFers, we’ve used up the ones we dare get rid of already. Maybe they stick with Knizner and Herrera. A good midpoint…a one year deal with Omar Narvaez. He signed a one year $5M deal last year and was only mediocre, so maybe just go with that again? I’ll run with it. (Salary $170M).
Lineup:
RF Nootbaar
2B Donovan (Gorman also plays here of course)
1B Goldy
3B Arenado
LF Conforto
DH Yepez/Gorman
SS Edman
C Narvaez/Knizner
CF CarlsonLots of lefties and versatility to pick and choose matchups. If/when Walker is ready, the lineup gets even longer and hedges against one of the OFers being ineffective or injured.
Bench: Gorman, Knizner, Dejong (unless/until Winn is ready), Deluzio-This is a weak point until Walker and/or Winn are ready for the call
Part 4
Rotation
RHP Bieber
LHP Rodon
RHP Flaherty
LHP Monty
RHP MikolasInnings, strikeouts, not a ton of walks and the potential for dominance if Flaherty is healthy. What’s not to like? Plus you could have guys like Libby, Hudson, Woodford, Parsons, Graceffo and McGreevy in Memphis by mid season for reinforcements.
Part 5
Bullpen
RHP Helsley
RHP Gallegos
LHP Matz
LHP Thompson
RHP Reyes
RHP Pallante
RHP Hicks
RHP Woodford or Hudson or LHP CabreraThe pen should be improved even over 2022.
I think this team would run circles around the NL Central and challenge the Braves, Mets, and Dodgers in the NL. Flaherty would be a bit of a keystone to the rotation…if he’s late 2019 or early 2021 Flaherty then the staff becomes scary good. The lineup needs a bit of age proofing there, but Gorman, Walker and Winn provide potential to energize the bats in 2023.
I’ll throw a name out there that might become available and could slot into CF and provide a left-handed bat: Cody Bellinger. Been reading reports about how the Dodgers will probably non-tender him, since he will be due to make around $20 million in his final year of arbitration. He is in desperate need of a change of scenery. He still plays great defense based on numbers and reports, and that MVP bat might still be in there. He’s only 26.
I have looked at him over and over. Plus defender in CF, RF, 1B (not that the Cardinals need him there), but where has the bat gone and does his “attitude” fit with the team. I think a thorough background investigation and check into a lot would be needed for me to consider it. I would suspect he and Houston would have a lot of mutual interest in each other though. Gurriel, Brantley are free agents. Options on Mancini and Maldonado. They could easily have
C Maldonado/?
1B Mancini
2B Altuve
3B Bregman
SS Pena
LF McCormick/?
CF Bellinger
RF Tucker
DH AlvarezAnd have a really good line up for probably less than they are spending this year and be able to reinvest the money to keep Verlander and whatever else they wanted to do. Could see them cut ties with Maldonado and be a player for Murphy or a TOR catcher.
As stl25 mentioned earlier in this thread the Cards and Blue Jays might be a good match for a trade. I have been reading more about Danny Jansen. There is a lot to like. He is a good defender, will only be 28 next year, has two years of control left, and is projected to only make $3.7M next year. And he has some pop in his bat!
If the Cardinals don’t go big for Contreras then Jansen could be an attractive target. He and Knziner could share some duties and it would allow Herrera some more time in Memphis but he wouldn’t block Herrera long term. I don’t know if I would trade Carlson or Noot straight up for him. The Jays might have to sweeten the pot a little bit but it is certainly worth exploring.
Waino…moves on. Retirement, the booth, another team…I’m not sure. He’d be a bargain most likely at his salary but he’s a #3/4 at this point, which we have in spades. We can use the money better elsewhere. (Payroll $130M)
-Stratton gets non tendered. This saves around $4M (Payroll $126M). I’m tempted to non tender Hudson too, but I think he could bounce back after the off year post-TJ.
-Call Cleveland about Bieber. They probably won’t be keen on trading their ace unless overwhelmed…so that’s exactly what we do. It’ll be painful, but send O’Neill, Burleson, and Hence to them. Cleveland has a bad OF and Hence is an enticing piece (who could be an ace but is so raw that it’s hard to project it at this point). (Salary $132M)
-I’m not stopping there! I’m serious about upgrading this rotation with ace quality arms. Sign Carlos Rodon to a 5 year, $115M deal. That’s what Ray got last year so I’ll project around the same here. Maybe a touch more or less, but in the ballpark. This would cost a draft pick, which the Cards usually don’t do. But we want a dominant team, not a sneaky one. This will move one of our starters to the bullpen…which we will get to. (Salary $155M)
-We need some lefty thump now, and probably another OFer. They could run Yepez out there or convert one of our IF guys, but I’d be in favor of signing someone. I’m going for Michael Conforto, on a 2 year/$25M deal. First year at $10M, mutual option after the first year for $15M. Jordan Walker may be ready early, but if so it’s a nice issue to have. If you’re afraid of Conforto, I guess there’s Bellinger or Pederson as a fallback. (Salary $165M)
25, I like this. If all that could happen, I’m all in. I would probably go for Pederson for a year or 2.
I think Nootbaar is a 4th outfielder, at best. O’Neill should be in left field, unless Burleson proves he’s ready. It’s an important year for Carlson, but he is in center to start the season. Walker will at some point be in right. An ace starting pitcher, although I see Graceffo making his debut next season. I would also bring back Quintana.
Nice work STLCard
pretty reasonable
Personally I am still trying to decide what I’d like to see happen vs what I think is likely and balance that well for a good post…
As of today…I am going towards few changes but impactful ones
– One important trade
– One important signing
– an extension or two
– depending on rebounds or continuations of past success or expected advancement
– a bunch of ST invites and non 25 man roster moves
– maybe a dumpso…
– trade for Mike Trout (Hudson, Burleson, Baez, Baker)
– Quintana and Waino re-signed
– Monty extension
– Knizner and Hererra get their chance (they committed to this they arent just going to give up on it and admit they were wrong)
– Rebounds and dependence on/from Carlson, ONeill
– Gorman will not be given up on
– expectation and dependence that Noot, Donovan won’t regress
– dump DeJong in Angels deal if you can, if not you hold him and hope for best as there is no better SS for the bench. Like the last year of Carp, it’s hard to watch but it is what it is.Edman, Trout, Goldy, Arenado, Oneill, Gorman, Yepez, Carlson, Knizner
Donovan, Ivan, Noot, Deluzio, DeJong
Mik, Quint, Monty, Waino, Jack
Helsley, Hicks, Gallegos, Pallante, Jojo, Matz, Woodford, Reyes, Genesis, VanDerH….etc.Trout seems available, feels like a Moz move. Quintana is as good as anything else we may look for.
It’s weird to think bringing in Trout is my conservative idea for the offseason…but i think it is…
Still the team really doesnt have to do anything…they can field a team without making a move…and it isnt all that bad…Rotation of Mik, Jack, Monty, Hudson, Matz isn’t all that exciting…but it works.
For me the biggest thing the team is missing is an impact OF. Jordan is coming but it is dumb to depend on him too early (ahem..Yepez, Gorman, Carlson as saviors hasnt worked out as planned)
Trout makes a lot of sense, but i could also see a stopgap like Brantley, Haniger, etc.
I like the “idea” of Conforto but until i see him healthy i cant commit. The Cardinals need a steady dependable bat and outfielder (preferably CF)…Trout or Haniger feel like the options for me.
I’d love to pick up a cheap Mateo on a 1 or 2 year deal who can play SS/2b and CF and can steal me a base at will. But with DeJong around that isnt happening
Anyways….first of many
Trout could be available. But are the Angels paying a portion of his salary? That’s one hefty contract. In my humble opinion Trout has been hurt the last couple of years and he is a right handed bat. For the cost both in money and prospect I would pass on him.
Mike’s buddy Albert has already convinced him to be fitted for a Redbird uniform and manned up in CF at Busch Stadium in ’23…
For the cost both in money and prospect I would pass on him.
He has a chronic back problem that’s not going anywhere and a large contract. He’s still a plus CF, still has top speed even if he doesn’t steal anymore, hit 40 HR, OPS was number 2 to only Judge for anyone with 400+ PA. According to BTV my proposal of Liberatore, Gorman, Herrera is an overpay but I think it would take a lot knowing he’s still very elite. And I don’t know that The The Angels Angels would have interest in Herrera with them getting one of the top C prospects for Marsh. I don’t care that he’s right handed, especially if they can (PLEASE) trade O’Neill and have Burleson and a RH platoon in LF, Trout CF, and Carlson in RF.
But like I’ve said a few pages back. I’m going for it! Pull a Preller and load up! Get rid of O’Neill, DeJong so on give me Murphy, Trout, Pollock, Giolito.he still was top 5 MVP for AL this year, also still played well in field. And he can transition to corner outfield and probably 1b and obv. DH later if needed
I would think the Angels would pick up some money on that contract, less if we try to get DeJong in that deal obv.
As for being over 30 (he just turned 30) Cardinals dont seem to care about that with Goldy and Arenado. As long as they produce. And Trout produces
last year he was out a bit…ok…but he still played 36 games and hit 8hrs and hit .333
but 2020…he hit 2017 during COVID year and hit .281
this year…hit 40..hit .283 and played 120 gameseven if he dropped some power..his consistency is unparalleled
If we target Goldy and Arenado…we would definitely target Trout if available for the right price
It’s a big contract…but he seems more than capable of contributing at a high level for at least 5 more years…then there are 3 declining probably…and at 37m…that’s a lot…but if used right (and as Pujols proved) truly great players can rise to the occasion
Trout is no ordinary player…probably greatest player of this post Pujols generation…and and all time great
combing him with Goldy and Arenado for their early mid 30s while we groom the kids feels a lot like the years before Pujols and Yadi…veteran stars holding it down while we search for the new internal star
If they’d eat 100m…forcing us to include some very good prospects i’d think…i think it is a no brainer
Hudson + Hence + Burleson + Baez + CThomas
(that feels like a lot…and it should…maybe even more so)
but looking at the Arenado deal…which would have to be the model Moz would work…even if the Angels GM seems a bit more competent IMO…though TBH…the decisions that organization makes is pretty crazy too…
I’d like to include Ivan or Knizner…but if we are adding on salary…i doubt we add Trout AND a FA catcher with no clear future catcher….
I think a big reason you GO for Trout is so you don’t have top worry about Knizner or Ivan contributing…allowing them to focus on defense first (Just like we did with Yadi) while the big bats carry the team…they can sit in the 8 spot and any offense is bonus
Trout plus Waino and Quintana and a bunch of hope for rebounds and no sophomore slumps and positive injury returns from feels a lot like a Cardinals offseason to me
1 big (trout) (arenado, goldy…
1 obv (Waino) (waino, yadi,
1 hopeful and probably a little overpay (Quintana)….(Matz, MikIf Mike Trout is available and can be acquired without giving up your farm system – you do it. I understand he is due $37 million a year through 2030. I also understand he is one of the greatest baseball players to ever play the game and still has many productive years to provide. I understand he’s due $37 million a year through 2030. That does not matter when the player is elite.
Trout and Ohtani aren’t going anywhere with the owner looking to sell.
I agree with this. This isn’t the time for the Angels to be making big moves. That is why their lame duck manager got a one year contract. Their new owner can make the big moves.
Now if the new owner is in place within the next 60-90 days things might change but these type of ownership sales tend to take awhile.
gscottar…The brewery sold the Cardinals to DeWitt and his partnership before you could say “Rumplestiltskin.” One day they belonged to Anhueser Busch, and the very next day the headlines said they were sold. No one even knew until it was over and done. The only snag was the guarantee that the team wouldn’t be moved to a larger market.
Right. We really don’t know how far along they are in the process but the longer this potential sale drags into winter and gets closer to spring training I would think it would be less likely the Angels would make big moves, and trading Trout would be about as big as it gets.
gscotter…I think the snag was that they required the sale of the team to include the old ballpark. I miss Busch Memorial. I was at Busch for the first game of this year’s Yankees/Cardinals series and the new one already looked worse for wear to me. When I was still working, I spent every day for almost a year downtown working for a contractor who moved various utilities related to the demo of Busch Memorial and the construction of the new stadium. The new one is built on the cheap and it’s really beginning to show. There was nothing wrong with Busch Memorial. The new ownership purposefully neglected to maintain it in order to allow it to fall into disrepair to bolster their argument for a new venue.
Trout is owed $150M to be paid over his ‘twilight’ seasons at the ages of 35, 36, 37, and 38. Add to that his recent injury problems, and I would say that there is zero chance of the Cardinals acquiring him. Just too much risk.Besides, I, for one, get bored listening to a broadcaster talking about the greatness of a 37 or 38 year old player who is OPS’ing .720 while getting paid $37M during those twilight years. No thanks.
It seems likely that they will have to bring in a catcher from somewhere. With the enthusiasm of Donovan’s play, I could see Gorman as trade bait for a catcher.
Their greatest need is for a top of rotation guy, IMO. I don’t know if there is one to be had, but for me that’s their greatest need. Flaherty is not that guy. He always has something going on, either physically or mentally, that prevents him from reaching his true potential. That said, I’m happy for any kid who can make himself into a multi-millionaire at such a young age. They seem to love Pallante and I expect him to be a regular rotation starter unless he shows that, in reality, he’s not up to the task. Liberatore could also be trade if there’s a team that really thinks he has yet to reach his true potential.
I think it will be a much different year for Hicks if he stops toying with the idea of being a starter, and that in itself will improve the bullpen. Cabrera ought to be back, also. Just don’t understand what his problem was this past year.
The unknown still is what effect banning the shift next year will have on the game.
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