Home › The Cardinal Nation Forums › Open Forum › Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors – 2021-2023
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October 10, 2022 at 10:06 am #204138
I keep coming back to Mike Trout… it seems ridiculous…but so did Goldy then Arenado… and Moz seems to have a talent for getting deals like that done…it wouldn’t be cheap, but it would be effective and fill the hole we have, whiel also allowing us to give Herrera and Knizner a year to show their wares as Trout would undoubtedly make up for any loss at the plate from either of them
Outside of going for Trout…i still want to look at older outfielders…and i will harp again on
MITCH HANIGER, all around good player, unfortunate injuries kept him down but he won’t hurt you…kinda like Bryan Reynolds but a bit better IMOgo for him and a catcher and try to move DeJong
I like Murphy but he will be sought after…I hate to say it but i do like Contreras as plug and play…he will always control the basepaths with that arm and we have become accustomed to that
If the A’s were keen on Hudson and one decent prospect id talk Murphy but i think will get way more
So I say try to package Hudson, Herrera and DEJong for a SS for a starter or instead of Haniger…a better younger outfielder and spend some money on Q
October 10, 2022 at 2:29 pm #204171The Cards need an ace starter, but I’m not trading 5 for 1 for Bieber. Graceffo should not be traded. Graceffo might be ready by next midseason.
We could try to sign Verlander but he is probably looking for a Scherzer type deal.
October 10, 2022 at 2:50 pm #204173The appropriate time to address the stud starter situation is the trade deadline. we did just fine this year, can do again next. what the team needs is to put together a roster that will win 95-100 games again next year, even with moderately decent pitching. You may have noticed, players are more fragile this century than any time in the past. The cards had the best prepared AAA replacements this year and they performed better in some ways than the men they replaced.
I am very concerned about Goldy. Around Sept 1, something in his hitting turned off. Will he recover? Id so, does he need more time off during the season to stay focused and healthy?
Trout. Philly would love to have him, but they don’t have the young talent to throw at a deal. A three way trade with Cards sending fresh faces to California, Phillies sending a stud pitcher to St. Louis, and California sending Trout to the Phillies…. that would work. Who would Cards let go? Gorman and Knisner and Carlson?
October 10, 2022 at 2:50 pm #204174assumes signing Contreras
October 10, 2022 at 2:57 pm #204175If the A’s were keen on Hudson and one decent prospect id talk Murphy but i think will get way more
It’s going to take a Realmuto type haul to get Murphy. He’s 1st year arbitration, projected $3.5 million, 2 more years of control, 28 years old, plus hitter, top 3 pop time, grades very well defensively. It’s going to take a lot. My post was just a dream though. What I expect is them to sign a LH reliever, finally cut ties with DeJong but have to eat the majority of the contract if not all of it, and make no other moves.
Flaherty, Montgomery, Mikolas, Matz, Hudson
VerHagen, Pallante, Thompson, Stratton, Hicks, FA LH, Gallegos, Helsley
C Knizner, Herrera
1B Goldschmidt
2B Gorman
3B Arenado
SS Edman
LF O’Neill
CF Carlson
RF Nootbaar
Donovan, Yepez DH/Utility
Burleson, RobertsonAnd some excuse about how they don’t have money or whatever.
October 10, 2022 at 3:01 pm #204176assumes signing Contreras
I’m not totally against signing Contreras, but the cost really matters. He hits and has a plus arm. But his other defensive metrics are pretty poor. If the cost is reasonable then I’m OK with it, but I don’t expect them to do much at all.
October 10, 2022 at 5:21 pm #204203And Contreras is going to have a qualifying offer attached to him too
October 11, 2022 at 12:32 am #204229667:
You’re right, they won’t do anything…meaningful. They may pick up a couple of guys no one else wants but the big talent that is needed to win the WS? Not a chance. All Junior cares about is 3.3 every year and maybe 3.4 or higher sometime. The WS means nothing to Junior. He and Mo will have their end of the year press conference where they say no, we’re not going to sign any big time free agents or trade away our hall of fame prospects for established talent. They’ll say they’re going to add a couple of pieces to stay competitive and if they make the playoffs hopefully they can advance to the WS. Hardly uplifting. More of the same and you can probably write the ending to 2023 right now. They will likely win the division and go out in the first round.
October 11, 2022 at 7:46 am #204238See you again this time next year, Nate!
“Predicting” a team won’t win the World Series is the “lowest hanging fruit” there could be. 29 times out of 30, you’d be right.
October 11, 2022 at 8:39 am #204243I am curious if we get another shocker from the front office this winter. Last year, it was Shildt getting fired. I wonder if they might shake up some of the executive positions. I really would like to see the Cardinals add some voices from outside the organization to discuss roster management and player development. I also think they might need to do something soon to keep Flores from taking a front office job elsewhere. Executive positions are opening up and I could see him being a name that starts popping up for interviews. They don’t need a complete overhaul, but I think it’s fair to wonder if their management approach is getting a little stale given the ongoing issues in October.
October 11, 2022 at 10:03 am #204258Fair point Kyl and I have had the same thought about Flores. He will be a GM soon somewhere.
October 12, 2022 at 9:13 am #204359This team has a decent balance of lefty and righty bats…but where it lacks is in the power bat balance.
RH
Goldy -Power/Avg
Arenado -Power/Avg
O’Neil -Power
Yepez -Power
Dejong -?
Knizner -Avg
Herrera -Avg
Robertson -Avg
Deluzio -?
Walker -Power/Avg
Winn -AvgLH
Donovan -Avg
Nootbaar -Avg
Burleson -Avg
Gorman -Power
Hurst -AvgSwitch
Edman -Avg/power on right side
Carlson -Avg/power on right sideThis why I’m in favor of signing Michael Conforto. He’s mashed righties in his career, and plays a decent OF. He’s a Joc Pederson+, if you will. A one year deal lets him build value and tempers against O’Neill injury or ineffectiveness, and in case the young OFers don’t get the hang of it yet. Or, one of them could be used as a trade chip.
October 12, 2022 at 9:45 am #204366Noot’s power numbers were slightly better than Gorman’s this year. I guess time will tell if that was a fluke or not. Actually there numbers in St. Louis were eerily similar.
Noot- 290 AB, 228 avg, 14 HR, 40 rbi, 71 k, 340 obp, 788 ops
Gorman-283 AB, 226 avg, 14 HR, 35 rbi, 103k, 300 obp, 720 opsOctober 12, 2022 at 10:04 am #204367I’d be pretty shocked if Nootbaar outslugs Gorman long term. I do think he’s a good ballplayer, though. Just more in the mold of Donovan, Edman, Burleson, etc where the overall profile is tilting toward well roundedness (on base, a little power, defense) rather than power. Obviously all those guys are not exactly the same and have varying degrees of power. But I wouldn’t call them power bats. Btw, when I say “avg” I also mean “on base.”
October 12, 2022 at 11:20 am #204373A career .441 slg% is pretty good in your first 471 PA’s (Noot). His career slg% leads all the players 25 mentioned above and I agree Gorman should outslug Noot.
A career .245 BAbip is also WELL BELOW mlb avg. This isn’t Noot overachieving, in fact just the opposite.
He is easily our most consistent outfielder and one of very few who produced during this postseason.
.333 / .500 / .500 / 1.000October 12, 2022 at 11:29 am #204375Tommy Edman slugged .500 his first year (349 PAs). He’s since become what we expected…a low power, higher average player.
Nootbaar looks to be on a similar track…not that I expect him to have as little power as Edman, but I suspect that he will have a little better average than this year, less power and a good OBP. That’s a good player to have on rookie salary. If he outperforms that long term, then we will all be thrilled.
October 12, 2022 at 1:10 pm #204386Brian:
You are right, the odds are with me. But until the Cardinals change their business model that relies too heavily on minor league talent that never seems to work and raise the payroll to 200 million and acquire real talent the chances for a WS trophy are next to nil. It was my point that if they tweak this winter like they do every winter it will be one and done again.
October 12, 2022 at 2:12 pm #204390Noot’s 14.7 BB% led the club, so even with a ridiculously low BAbip, the OBP was good enough to be a table setter.
October 12, 2022 at 2:57 pm #204399IMO whatever we get out of Noot is a pleasant surprise because most had little expectations of him coming up through the system.
That can’t be said of Carlson though. He was very highly rated in our system for multiple years and he just has not lived up to those expectations yet. He still has time but the clock is ticking. This lineup really needs him to be more than an average platoon player.
October 12, 2022 at 3:32 pm #204408That can’t be said of Carlson though. He was very highly rated in our system for multiple years and he just has not lived up to those expectations yet. He still has time but the clock is ticking. This lineup really needs him to be more than an average platoon player.
Yep, Carlson had a really nice run for a couple months where he hit pretty well…then fell off quite a bit. His inability to hit left handed is odd as most years coming up he was better from that side of the plate.
October 12, 2022 at 4:47 pm #204413I think gauging Carlson based on this year might be a little short-sighted. This was his second full year in the big leagues and that is typically an adjustment year. Teams have a book on guys after that first season and start figuring out how to get them out. Hopefully, Carlson puts in the work this winter and figures out some adjustments.
I think it’s important to remembers he was a 3.3 bWAR player last season slashing .266/.343/.437 as a 22 year old. I think he entered the season with an adjusted approach and it screwed up his entire season. I know he was initially tabbed as a leadoff hitter this season, because I remember reading about how he started reaching out to guys like Matt Carpenter for advice. I think he put a higher emphasis on contact and it turned into weak contact. His K% dropped 5.3% from last year, while his walk rate remained the same. The problem is his exit velocity dropped 2 mph on average, his hard hit rate dipped nearly 4%. He also hit the ball on the ground more, which isn’t his game. He needs to be driving balls into the gaps.
I think a similar issued happened with his plate splits. Right side has always been his best, but he was an okay hitter from the left side in 2021. He slashed .243/.329/.411 from that side in 2021, but this year he was .207/.294/.339. He clearly was not seeing the ball as well from that side of the plate or really driving anything. Hopefully, that is correctable this offseason. Regardless, I agree that 2023 will be a make-or-break year for him. I’m optimistic he can turn it around, though.
October 12, 2022 at 5:24 pm #204418GS,
Carlson, Yepez, Donovan, Gorman and Noot are reminders that they all develop at a different pace.Their minors numbers are just an indication of where they are at that time, in their development.
For me, we just saw Yepez ceiling. Carlson and Gorman have more to offer.
I’m remembering when we had two lefty bats, Carpenter and Wong. Add Edman to those above and possibly Burleson. That’s a good young core of lefty bats.
October 13, 2022 at 6:43 am #204457I saw this elsewhere. Jansen in particular sounds like he could be appealing as he’s known to be a good defender. Or perhaps the Cards would prefer offense at the position? I dunno, but it would be good to explore.
MLB Trade Values has Kirk at +39.3M, Jansen at +17.8M, Moreno at +61.4M.
For our OF, these are the values: Carlson +47.2M, Nootbaar +32.8M, O’Neill +24.5M, Burleson +16.5M
An interesting note from Shi (who is great btw) about how the Cardinals and Blue Jays could be partners this off-season.
Blue Jays have a glut of catchers in Jansen, Kirk, and top prospect Moreno. https://t.co/oqMox1isWO pic.twitter.com/rSxhhA7fPf
— Carter Chapley (@ChapleyMedia) October 13, 2022
October 13, 2022 at 12:09 pm #204475They think Carlson is a star. He’s probably going no where.
October 14, 2022 at 11:05 am #204563Every year I like to throw together a bit of a dream scenario, or as I call it, “go Jager” for a bit…to put together a team that’s stronger in many areas than the one we have. So this is my stab this year before the Hot Stove even gets warmed up.
I’m going on a few assumptions here:
1. The “baseline” salary right now for the team with no free agents signed and arbitration salaries projected is $130M.
2. The team has the ability to spend to $170-180M, which is about where they’d be without the pandemic. This year was likely a cash cow for the team.
3. The goal is to build a 95ish win team under the new balanced schedule, plus build a team that is playoff resilient.
4. Team needs to accomplish these goals: front of the rotation pitching, lefty pop, catcher, bullpen.
With that said, these are the moves I make…(Had to split this one into multiple parts thanks to the “reply cannot be created” error)
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