- This topic has 2,444 replies, 59 voices, and was last updated 2 years, 7 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
I respectfully disagree with their current roster and minor league system or lack their of. Especially with Rondon as a sweetener.
The Angels have a bad infield for sure, however, I imagine there are better options for them than a guy hitting .130 this year and still owed over $12M. The Cards would have to pay most of the salary or kick in a high end prospect to move him. Higher than Rondon.
The difference between PDJ and Dexter Fowler is, Fowler couldn’t be sent down without his permission.
IMO, the best possibile starters to acquire are Clevinger and Snell. Neither may cost top prospects. But either of them would slot in nicely with Mikolas, Wainright, and Hudson.
What about getting Joe Kelly from the White Sox? Not sure they’d trade him, he wouldn’t cost a ton in terms of prospects. Not sure the White Sox won’t get back into contention either.
I know Kelly has struggled, but I thought I saw him pitch, and his velocity was still there. He’s walked a lot of guys, and maybe he could be had cheaper, with the Sox either kicking in cash, or taking Dejong in a package.
I guess if the FO doesn’t trade for Syndergaard, I won’t much care who they acquire. This pitching staff is loaded with mediocre already. More of the same really won’t interest me.
I think Burleson has to be part of any trade for a front line pitcher like Castillo. I saw a rumored proposal of Burleson, Liberatore, and Bedell for Castillo. Just a guess….but I don’t think they’ll trade Bedell. He’s out of the University of Missouri and Bedell kind of worked with the Cardinals organization when they were signing other players that they drafted in 2020. When a player shows any kind of loyalty, or expresses a desire to be with their organization, the Cardinals have a very strong tendency to stick with that player no matter what.
I would be surprised if the Reds would trade Castillo to the Cards. It would have to be a massive overpay on our part.
As for Joe Kelly I think I would pass. He is just too erratic, both on and off the field.
I saw Kelly in person and mentioned somewhere that he’s a very hard pass for me. Obviously Cabrerra has been great, Packy has looked good in the pen, but adding another lefty might not be a bad idea if they are going to add to the pen. Disclaimer: I’d prefer Thompson building up innings in Memphis until he proves he can’t start.
Honest question. If Joe Kelly wasn’t an ex-Cardinal, would his stats warrant even a second look? I think if his name was John Smith and he was acquired, it would be labeled by many as another dumpster dive. It seems like this team already has more than enough roster spots filled by nostalgia guys. JMO.
Nope, would not warrant a second look. I can’t get past the walk rate, but, he would fit in the pen nicely with our other veterans getting shelled.
As KylsMss mentioned a few days ago, Brad Keller of the Royals would be a solid pickup. He has another year of control, is fairly cheap, and wouldn’t cost as many prospects as Castillo or Montas (if healthy). Keller isn’t an ace but I think he is at least good as Dakota Hudson and probably better. He would be a good number 3 starter for us.
In all the trade scenarios, we need to give up something of value. I agree with many posters that including Woodford in a trade would be the best thing for him. I have seen other sites that think we will have to part with Burleson and maybe even Libby. Including DeJong in a trade for someone looking for solid defense would make sense, or even Del Perez. Neither of those SS have much of a chance at a promotion here unless an injury takes out a starter. Possibly Baker would interest teams with a need at 1B or DH. Not sure how attractive C. Thomas would be to anyone, and he will need to be added to the 40 man this fall. Other ideas?
CFan64, I don’t think they should or will give up a Burleson, Libby, etc for just a rental, when the team likely isn’t a WS contender with the Mets, Dodgers, Braves, etc. Look no further than the Cards record against winning teams….
However, a lesser starter or BP piece for the “farewell tour” and to at least get to the playoffs wouldn’t be awful. With the amount of buyers vs sellers, it’ll likely be an overpay.
In the offseason, adding two starters in FA or maybe a trade for a younger/controlled guy would be my best guess. In no particular order…. Musgrove, Manaea, Rodon, Eovaldi, Bassitt, Syndergaard, Morton, etc could all be in play to sign in the offseason.
I really don’t want to see them give up Burleson, Yepez, much of anything big. I know they need help, but the cost to acquire is going to be too high to make big moves. Probably best off with a inning eater SP and an solid reliever. Best case scenario is they take on a contract for someone to take on DeJong, VerHagen, McFarland, with a prospect but I don’t know if they can make it work. I still like Yepez and Burleson to replace Pujols and Dickerson in the DH role for 2023 and possibly even LF if needed (trade O’Niell, Walker forces way to DH or moves to LF, injuries, ect.). From the “top 30”, I would definitely talk Nunez, Baker, Torres, Perez, Rodriguez, Gomez from the position players. I know a lot of their stock is down and they wouldn’t bring much. Pitchers I’d talk Woodford for sure, he needs it, and I’d probably have no pitcher off limits. Liberatore would be close to off limits, but I’d talk Hence, McGreevy, Graceffo, but only 1 and the return would have to be pretty darn significant.
I think realistically, and Mo’s past, they don’t give up top talent and they roll the dice with
1. Mikolas
2. Wainwright
3. ??? (Solid middle rotation)
4. Hudson
5. Matz (L)1. Pallante
2. Naughton (L)
3. Fernandez/?
4. Hicks
5. ??? (Solid reliever capable of helping late)
6. Cabrera (L)
7. Gallegos
8. Helsley
Be able to call upon Thompson (L), Oviedo, Naile if needed, maybe Whitley and Walsh if they get healthy.Edit: Basically the 2011 Rasmus, Trevor Miller, Brian Tallet, PJ Walters for Jackson, Dotel, Rzepczynski, Patterson. VerHagen and McFarland are the Miller and Tallet, they have many “PJ Walters”, just who’s the Rasmus and who’s the Jackson (middle rotation, innings eater SP) and Dotel (Solid RP, capable of helping late)
Sellers:
DET, KC, LAA, OAK, WASH, PITT, CHC, CIN, COL, AZAZ and LAA with their roster construction and intent to content, I think they would mostly only be selling off pending FA and maybe a contract to free up money to retool another roster spot.
BALT has been hot and played themselves out of sellers and possibly into buyers, CHWS, TEX, and MIA are back a little but still in contention and probably would look to add, especially CHWS who have been getting guys back from the IL and playing better. Basically there are only 10 probable sellers, 2 of them may not have everything available, 3 probably don’t deal with the Cardinals. DET, KC, OAK, WASH, COL, and maybe LAA and AZ to realistically be looking to buy from.These added playoff spots are going to keep teams as buyers, sellers can demand more, and possibly content faster….in theory.
A possible idea that wouldn’t exactly help the big league team this year, but there are going to be a lot of guys that will need to be protected on the 40 man in December, and several don’t have a likely future in STL. What about trading a few of those fringe, still in the works, but could blossom type prospects for Compensation Picks in the draft? The Braves and Royals just did something similar.
The Gomez, Woodford (if they won’t use him) and Capel are the types I’m thinking. Those guys have value, just don’t see it being on the Cardinals.
Capel probably doesn’t have much trade value, but he’s going to have 2 more option years for depth. Nootbaar would have significant more trade value. Gomez probably doesn’t have much value with limited time in AAA and was a minor league FA signing. I expect Woodford to be included for someone.
As for starters, so far I would have Bumgarner and Keller at the top of my realistic list. As for relievers, I haven’t taken the time to scour each roster that closely but there are usually many good relievers to be had at the deadline. I am going to assume we won’t have any trades with any other NLC teams so that takes three sellers off of the list.
C667, my motivation is to get something for Capel, there are going to be way to many guys that need to be added to the 40 man before the rule 5.
This is just one example, Paniagua who likely won’t make it to STL by the end of next year would need to be added, but a rebuilding team like the Reds/Pirates/etc would likely love to take a chance on him and could just use him in long relief for a year.
I wasn’t bashing Capel FYI, I think he could be a fine 4th OF type, and I know the Cardinals don’t have a ton of OF depth lower in the system, but it seems there will be many more than are needed in December.
What would a package of Burleson, Nunez and Paniagua net in a trade? Since I’m not sure this team has any future for 2022 I’m hesitant to lose any future potential. That said, if it netted Montas. Castillo or someone of that ilk I’d have to strongly consider it as I think we’ve got the bats and arms to cover the loss.
I think if you’re looking at 2023
C- Knizner/Herrera
1B- Goldschmidt
2B- Gorman
3B- Arenado
SS- Edman
LF- O’Neill(trade?)
CF- Bader
RF- Carlson
DH- Donovan/Burleson/YepezSosa?, Donovan/Burleson/Yepez, Herrera/Knizner
And then look at the minor league depth in OF, Capel with 2 options and ability to play all 3 OF spots probably provides move value to the Cardinals in depth and to be able to call upon when needed than he brings in trade. Going with the youth of Donovan/Burleson/Yepez as DH, Donovan moving around gives some lineup flexibility and also financial flexibility to take on a SP contract (like Bumgarner, Kelly) and spend to not have the scrapped together pen we are seeing. If O’Neill is the LF when he gets his annual injury Donovan or Burleson can fill LF, Burleson/Yepez DH, having a guy like Capel in AAA is pretty valuable. This is also assuming Nootbaar is traded for someone, who’s name I forgot to mention in that I expect to see him traded a few posts ago.
Yeah if I had to choose between keeping Capel or Nootbaar I think I would keep Capel. I don’t know if I can defend that opinion numbers wise but based on a limited eye test I like Capel better.
The most likely traded prospect is Malcolm Nunez. He is young and can hit with some power but he really offers no value to the Cardinals because of his redundancies at the major league level. Plus, he will be rule 5 eligible. I think of all prospects, he seems most likely to be traded as he will definitely be more valuable to someone else than he is to the Cardinals. That’s really what you look for in trades. The next most likely are guys like Burleson or Woodford. They also have a skill set that while valuable to the Cards, is probably more valuable to another team. Woodford may have equal value either way, but he seems like one of those guys that just needs a fresh start somewhere else. I think we otherwise will at least try to hang on to the rest of our pitching talent because we know we are going to need them all in the near future. The other place we are somewhat abundant in is decent catching prospects so one of them other than Herrera may be traded as a throw-in part of a deal. But I guess anyone could be for sale if the return is worth it.
As for Nootbaar or Capel, I just don’t see either of them really having much value to another team. Nootbaar probably has a little, but it’s just not going to be much.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.