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Let’s get Charlie Blackmon for maybe Carpenter and (Dean, williams, or Thomas), and we kick in some cash. Not sure the Rockies will make another trade with us though.
Only other guy i’d throw out for giggles is Haniger form the M’s. He has missed time with freak injuries, but was a solid player before and if healthy is still probably solid. He was older when he came up so he is already older. I wonder if he is available as they make room for Kellenic and Rodriguez
Haniger is back playing and playing well so far with a 1.003 OPS so far. He wouldn’t be a bad target at the deadline if the Cards want to aim for an OF upgrade. Nimmo or Conforto could also be if the Mets aren’t lighting it up, or perhaps they have a need the Cards could match for one of their many good OFers.
I really doubt the Mets will be sellers at the deadline. They have their sites set on the postseason. The Mariners, Rangers, and Marlins could be sellers. Guys like Haniger, Gallo, and Marte could be available.
You never know, it is the Mets and they could fall off the pace. Lol
But like I said, they could have some sort of need that we could meet and maybe Conforto is a change of scenery guy or Nimmo is back to earth and able to be moved for bullpen help or defense or whatever.
I agree with the teams that could be sellers. I’m not interested in Gallo as a monster K guy or Marte with the PED stink, but Haniger sounds good and the Dipoto will be itching to trade someone. Lol
Gallo is who he is, but so far this year he seems to have a different approach, he has 18 Ks but 15 walks. That is not terrible.
Haniger makes sense too, Marte on an expiring deal does as well. PEralta is my other look
My issue is that, waiting until the trade deadline is going to be too late for this team to get production out of the OF.
They need to make a move now, period. I don’t care that Bader isn’t in there or not. They need better depth and better production period, and they need it immediately.
Who cares if Bader comes back and hits a bit better, do we really expect him to be impact? no. Tyler may be better, but we need more than hopes and dreams for production.
And why would it be a bad thing to have depth in the OF with some offensive output?
Look at the Reds, they got Nyquin for nothing and he is lighting it up, and he is their 4th OF at best, maybe 5th. And they still have Akiyama who has yet to play?
at best:
Winker, Senzel, Castellenos, Aquino, Akiyama, Nyquin
vs
ONeill, Bader, Carlson, Williams, Thomas, Deanthat is pathetic, even if you take out Castellenos
Our OF needs stability on the offense right now
Waiting another month to get Bader back, THEN seeing if he hits (which he hasnt been anyway) means probably 2 months before we even consider a move.
Why not get someone RIGHT NOW, then have Bader in your back pocket for pushing the defense and even offense of the players
I mean, Carlson is in the Rasmus stage now…he has NO competition and he knows it…he is hopefully going to work out, but he knows he isn’t getting benched any time soon. With or without Bader and ONeill. Because there is not enough talent to even force him to the minors to work on things.
Even last year he had to go down, because he wasn’t performing. We can’t even afford TO send him down as we can’t even cover the OF
Sign Puig and hope he is healthy and not a detriment…cut him if he is a problem, sign Sean Rodriguez and hope he is better
OR
trade right now for Marte or Haniger or Gallo or Peralta…don’t wait, just do it
just force some competition on these guys to get better. There is ZERO right now and they are playing like it
I don’t see why we are constantly bombarded with “you can never have too much pitching” to justify never dealing young pitchers for hitting talent, yet we never hear…”you can never have too many hitters” as we never HAVE enough hitters to even say it…yet…
WE NEED offense, before ONEill got hurt and before Bader got hurt….we will need offense when they both return too, if they ALL hit…why is that not the thing to want?
Who are you going to trade from your pitching to get one of these outfielders? We already have a shortage of starting pitching in the majors. That lack of depth is going to be worse after this year unless a couple of Liberatore, Thompson, Oviedo, Rondon and Woodford show they are ready for the majors full time. Martinez will be gone and possibly Waino and Kim. Are we going to end up shorting out pitching to try to shore up our outfield?
Jager,
If we we were in the NL West I would agree with the sense of urgency but in the NL Central I highly doubt we will be out of the race by the deadline. If we are it will be because none of our starters can go longer than five innings. Plus, if you to try swing a deal now you will have to overpay because the other team will know you are desperate.
Yeah, I agree with gscottar. I would think that going to a team now and trying to swing a deal will be like making a deadline deal on steroids. A big overpay would be likely. I am firmly against signing Puig…he has not been any better than our other guys for a few years now and is not just a possible, but a know clubhouse cancer. Super hard pass.
The question would be…what would it take to get a Haniger at the deadline? The Mariners probably could use infield help and everyone needs pitching. They have no 3B prospects anywhere near the top of their org chart. The Cards obviously have a pretty darned good MLB one and a few good prospects, too. Perhaps Jordan Walker would pique their interest? You would likely have to overpay a bit at the deadline if Haniger is looking good still, so perhaps Walker and Thompson or Oviedo? I like Johan a little better, especially seeing the increased velocity and movement on his pitches this year. MLB Trade Values has the trade at 15.3M to the Cards and 22.2M to the Mariners, a bit of an overpay. Rondon instead of Thompson would make it about equal value but there is usually a deadline premium.
That would basically be giving up the last two first round picks for Haniger. Would you do it?
If Haniger reverts back to his old self I might be interested but that would be giving up a lot for him. He really hasn’t done much since 2018. I think I like Gallo better since he is LH and a very good defender.
I think Haniger is a more well rounded player and provides better value. Gallo is a slugger who will drive fans nuts with Ks.
Haniger has a 6 WAR and a 3+ WAR partial season in his career, while Gallo has one good year (a half year at 3.1 WAR in 2019) and the rest more around average offensively.
Haniger’s injury was a freak sort of incident and gives some insight into how amazing it was that Yadi came back as soon as he did. I wouldn’t expect him to be injury prone going forward because of it. Plus, that career 127 OPS+ would look good in the lineup.
A 108 OPS+ isn’t what I’d call bad and he only got in 63 games before missing the rest of the season. Small samples can skew things. Certainly his age could be a factor but he should have a couple good years left in him. Coincidentally, he’s a free agent after next year so there’s an out if needed.
25, I would agree that small sample sizes can skew things but there are things that stand out to me about his 2019. His OPS was mainly a result of a higher than normal home run rate. It was about 25% higher than his previous rate. His K rate was a little higher than normal. Up to 2019, his career batting average was .278. In 2019, it was .220.
I am not real concerned about whether Haniger will perform. Just pointing out that there are things to consider. He would still be an improvement to what we have had so far this year.
I think Gallo is refining his game some. I am not so sure the old scouting report is still valid with him. He still strikes out quite a bit but he also currently has an OBP of .441, which is 7th highest in all of MLB.
Gallo has some good traits, for sure. I think he may be more expensive in a trade than Haniger due to the recent results. I tend to prefer the all around player to the one who’s more one dimensional. In an ideal world we could really go for it and trade for Haniger, trade O’Neill or Bader for some spare parts and spend Dewitt’s money this off-season and have a heck of a team:
2B Edman
1B Goldy
LF Conforto
3B Arenado
CF Carlson
RF Haniger
SS Dejong
C Yadi/Knizner/Herrera
DH GormanBader, Knizner/Herrera, Williams, Sosa
Flaherty, Scherzer, Mikolas, Hudson, Reyes/Liberatore/Oviedo
Pen that hopefully will look more stable soon.
That club would be a major title contender.
I don’t see a Cardinals outfield that is so full that the team shouldn’t be looking at multiple targets.
-Bader should be a 4/5th OF used for defense and running, that is a fine role
-ONeill is probably a bench power bat and defensive replacement with speed, good role
-Williams and Thomas are AAAA and injury depth that is a tough gig to have but still pays well-Gallo would be the power lefty we need that Carp can’t provide, he is also young and has a great glove
-Haniger is the solid but unspectacular OF with an all around game but his age limits long term investment, which is fine because you WANT those young OFers in the minors seeing a spot opening up and you WANT the veterans to fight hard knowing they have kids on their heels-Scherzer via trade this year, or in offseason is the obvious move and probably with Wainwright moving on provides us with the veteran leadership the starters need
Problem is, we knew this in the offseason before this year. We knew we had rotation quality depth issues, and we knew we needed at least more than 1 bat (Arenado)
-We were sold on the idea that we have SO many options that it will all work out for the rotation, so far Jack and Waino have shown up…nobody else seems ready or able
-We were sold on 5 untested OFers being able to produce 3 solid OFers of production, Carlson is being who he probably should be…but everyone else is pretty much who they are hurt, ineffective, not ready, haven’t gotten betterArenado was a great get…especially for the price…but thinking that is all that was wrong with the offense is ignorant and far too prideful about the signings of Carp, and putting Bader on pedestal as the future of StL baseball a couple years back
Edman seems a starter after 1 full year of games now…and seems to have more upside than i thought, as i thought he’d be better as super sub. But Bader and ONeill are just not starters, which sucks…because the best versions of them would be pretty incredible to watch
But Goldy, Arenado, Yadi all get older every day and we waste the high value you we have given them by waiting to make moves to take advantage of that spent capital
I’d trade for Haniger or Peralta now…both of those teams know they are not in their plans for the future and the divisions are not theirs right now, then look at Marte or Gallo at the deadline
Would it cost a bit more to go early? Maybe…I mean we already saw Arcia traded from Milwaukee
Anibal Sanchez, Porcello are both available…and both could eat some innings…woudl they be a lot better than what we have? maybe not by much BUT it woudl allow us to send guys to Memphis or the alternate site to work on things instead of right now, where it seems we dont have depth enough to make a move beyond Woodford or Whitley.
Perhaps with a couple of veterans like that, we coudl actually wait it out until Thompson, Oviedo, Libertore are able to provide real innings
To bring in two OFers in the season would eat into our farm more…but we dont really have OF depth coming to help any time soon… Haniger and Gallo seem perfect ages to allow Capel, Nootbaar, Thorres and the gang to get better
sign Scherzer in the offseason, bring the guy home and go with:
Jack, Max, Hud, Mik, Reyes(has to earn 5th spot)
Hicks, Geo, Genesis, Gant, Webb, Whitley, Ponce, battle for last spot
Edman, Carlson, Goldy, Arenado, Gallo, Haniger, DeJong, Yadi, pitcher
ONeill, Knizner, Bader, battle for 2 backup IF spots either through kids or FAThat’s a pretty exciting team
Also…id love Conforto, i just dont see him being moved or not re-signed
-We were sold on the idea that we have SO many options that it will all work out for the rotation, so far Jack and Waino have shown up…nobody else seems ready or able
-We were sold on 5 untested OFers being able to produce 3 solid OFers of production, Carlson is being who he probably should be…but everyone else is pretty much who they are hurt, ineffective, not ready, haven’t gotten betterWe weren’t really sold on anything this off-season, to be fair. They added Arenado but most objective fans knew that the salary constraints meant that this year was going to be used to build toward 2022.
I’d also challenge a couple of your assertions that Gallo is a “power bat we need” and Haniger is “solid but unspectacular.
First, Gallo does indeed have power but I’m not ready to say he’s turned the corner enough with the hit tool to trust his OBP this year. Sure, he may hit 30-35 HRs but with a .200 BA and .300 OBP, he’s going to have to keep slugging to provide much value. If we want a great glove with power, I’m fine with settling in with O’Neill for half a season of continual at bats and seeing what results.
Second, Haniger is almost a 4.5 WAR player per 600 PA in his career. That’s near or above guys like Story, Baez and Correa who will be considered “stars” on the market this off-season. His peak year is over 6 WAR, which is pretty spectacular as that’s MVP vote category. He’s also got a pretty good glove. We could certainly do worse. He’d be my choice for a deadline bat.
As for Conforto, after spending big on Lindor and already having Nimmo, Smith, possibly Davis, etc to fit into a crowded OF, Conforto may be the guy to go. Not a given, but he will be out there most likely.
Jager, all of those ideas are good but as stl25 mentioned the budgetary issues can’t be removed from the conversation. When Wong’s option was declined that was an obvious sign that 2021 was going to be a low budget year. The only reason we got Arenado was Mo was somehow able to convince Colorado to pay his 2021 salary. Now, 2022 is a different story, no pun intended.
As for Gallo vs Haniger I still lean towards Gallo. He is younger, LH, and more athletic. I understand the argument that he is a LH version of O’Neill except Gallo is more proven. He has actually done what we hope O’Neill will do someday. Also, the trade simulator assigned Gallo a value of 25.2 and Haniger a value of 15.3.
Gallo would cost Walker, Thompson and Oviedo then. That would be past the puke point for me.
Also, Gallo has 14 career DRS in RF, 13 of which came last year. He did have 3 DRS in CF at some point. I have not seen much of him out there but I get the sense that he may be a “Schwarber good” type of fielder. Haniger has 20 DRS in RF, with a -4 in CF that shouldn’t be too worrisome. On a per inning basis, Haniger may be better and certainly would if Gallo’s 2020 wasn’t legit.
I have not seen much of him out there but I get the sense that he may be a “Schwarber good” type of fielder.
Gallo won a gold glove last year. I would be surprised if Schwarber ever comes close to that.
I want no part of Gallo. I do not like his hitting approach. I believe Williams might show improvement by the end of this year, if he gets playing time. I also want to see if Bader’s new approach during his brief ST continues. PDL, Thomas, and Carp have tenuous roster spots. so an outfield addition should be possible later this year.
It sure looks like we did well to pass on Joc Peterson despite many saying he would be perfect here. Reading comments on MLBtraderumors(due to him being DL’d) from people who have been watching him regularly and they are not complimentary.
If the Yankees continue to scuffle and it looks like a lost season, would they consider parting with Aaron Judge? He’s not a rental as he has a year left so they probably wouldn’t love to move on from him. Trade Values has him at a surplus value of almost $60M right now, which seems high. He is almost 30, right handed and injury prone so maybe he’s not a great target but he would be a good power bat for the lineup.
I read an article the other day that the Yankees and Angels were talking about a Judge trade over the winter but couldn’t work it out.
His injury history makes me a little nervous plus I think we really need a big LH bat. Most of our pop is from the RH side.
I’d like a batter who hits righties hard, too. That said, there’s no doubt that Judge is a better hitter against all batters than someone like Joey Gallo, and he’s up there with Conforto even against righties.
Career Against RHP:
Judge .933 OPS
Conforto .882 OPS
Gallo .820 OPSCareer Against LHP:
Judge .971 OPS
Gallo .823 OPS
Conforto .716 OPS
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