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Strange move, which we are all used to. Barrios can hit and has some power but Saggese was very productive in his time with the big club. The 40-man spot is probably going to be Fermin…. he is 26 and may not fit in with the reset. Its questionable if he’ll be grabbed. I’d hate to see Helman dropped. He’s a real go-getter.
The advantage Barrero gives over Saggese is two-fold. The first is that Saggese can continue to develop with regular AB’s. The second is that without Siani on the ML roster, Nootbaar is the one and only backup CFer. Barrero has experience at CF and more experience at SS than Donovan and Saggese combined. Therefore, he’s a better fit. However, if someone gets injured at 2B, SS, or 3B, expect to see Saggese come back up.
To make room for Barrero on the 40-player roster, RHP Ryan Loutos has been designated for assignment.
— St. Louis Cardinals (@Cardinals) April 28, 2025
So we have two 300 hitters (Donovan and Saggese) and we send one down to Memphis! When I was coaching and granted it was not near mlb levels I used to always tell the kids if you hit we will find a place for you! Obviously this doesn’t apply to the Cardinals! We would rather see Gorman and Walker play every day and see which can be the first to go under 200! Maybe we should play Saggese at 2nd Donovan in left and let Gorman and Walker DH against righties and lefties! Whole thing makes zero sense to me!
RHP Joseph King (A+) has been activated from the 7 day IL.
RHP Zack Showalter (A+) has been placed on the Development List.
— Cardinals Player Development (@CardsPlayerDev) April 29, 2025
While losing and being a losing club is no fun, this is the year for the organization to bite the bullet with Walker, Gorman, and Burleson among others.
Give these guys the rope and 500 PAs to show what they can (or can’t do).
Saggese appears to be a part of the ML future but imo it’s ok for him to play every day at AAA this year with some stints in StL also
We haven’t seen the last injury of the season – he’ll be back and when he is in StL he needs to play.
Having to ride out a decade mostly mediocre seasons and outside of 2019 a single post season win is no fun – but outside of Pujol’s second half in 2022 and the 17 game winning streak in 2021 – Cardinal baseball hasn’t been much fun anyway.
If Bloom is ‘the guy’s then next year will be better, more settled, a lot of decisions on some players made and 2027 could be a lot of fun.
If Bloom is a bust, well – we already know what that’s going to feel like.
If anyone is interested, here’s the pitching chart for 2025. I was out of the country for 3 weeks and neglected to update. Spent the past few days getting it updated
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_bPgJK7AYxRjXM1qVeeWsOSp8emHQDZTlNolv4kwdag/edit?usp=sharing
I’m thinking one of the reasons that Saggese got sent down is that the Cardinals were not pleased with his defense. That is an area of his game that does need work but with this team so offensively challenged I do like seeing his name in the lineup.
They already know what they need to know about Saggese. A UT who could play OK 2B every day if necessary and fill in elsewhere. We got that covered already. They want to see how this other guy looks and how he might fit.
Saggese and Herrera are in a similar situation of being all bat and little glove. But on those nights when we put 1 run on the board it would be nice to have a couple of extra guys in the lineup capable of hitting .300.
Which catcher is Ivan Herrera and which is Pedro Pages? Sharing a comparison of their career defensive stats in terms of outs saved above average for a range of catching metrics. Between everything summed up, that is only a single out in favor of Player A. FRV = Fielding Run Value (Sum of statcast values although accounts for decimals). cERA = Catcher ERA (ERA of pitches when catching)
Player | Innings | Throwing | Blocking | Framing | FRV | cERA A | 708.1 | -1 | 0 | 0 | -1 | -1 B | 662.2 | -3 | 0 | 1 | -3 | 0Now which of these is Herrera and Pages from an offensive standpoint? WPA = Win Probability Added (how timely their hits are and adding to overall win %). BRAA = Batting Runs Above Average. BRRAA = BaseRunning Runs Above Average
Player | PA | AVG | OBP | SLG | OPS | wRC+ | RBI | R | WPA | BRAA | BRRAA A | 294 | .240 | .276 | .375 | .651 | 81 | 38 | 27 | -0.98 | -6.7 | -1.0 B | 349 | .295 | .372 | .443 | .814 | 130 | 43 | 49 | 0.15 | 5.7 | 2.3Player B has been worth 12.4 runs better with the bat and 3.3 runs better on the basepaths. If you use traditional status, player B has been worth 27 runs higher (RBI + R) although in only 44 more PA.
Player B could be even much worse with the glove and decrease his offensive production and still be a better overall benefit for the club. Obviously Player B is Ivan Herrera and Pedro Pages is Player A. But all the numbers show Herrera is going to help the club more than Pages. Pages is a perfectly fine backup, but he should not be the starter.
I’m in agreement that we should be seeing more of Pozo and less of Pages. Let’s see whether he can sustain the offense.
Thanks JJ. The games I watch and stats I look up afterwards, the more passionate I feel about Pages not needing to be the starting catcher.
Forsh, Herrera starts rehab Thursday, so hopefully another week from now he is back in Stl. Pozo should get a couple of starts though in that time. I’m hoping he can get a run of starts to see if we should keep Pozo or Pages on the roster as the backup.
I can see where not having a productive middle of the order is a reason to just try to shoehorn all the bats you have into the lineup. That seems like a tactic that hopefully pulls out a .500 season. The worrying thing is that there is no middle of the order on the horizon unless Bill ponies up to buy it. I’m already tired of .500 seasons, so I don’t care if they can pull it off. Stuffing all the 1B/DH types and UTs into the lineup isn’t helping build anything.
Yours is a differing opinion than mine ATM, but that’s what I look for.
Yadi spoiled me, I need a catcher to excel at pitch calling and controling the base paths. Good base running and a plus bat are icing if you can get them at catcher.
Pozo
Pages
Contreras
HerreraThat order descending will never fly with our FO due to their investment level, in each catcher.
Pitch calling and sequencing are night and day difference in the catchers, and Herrera’s throwing to bases is lacking. He and Willson are the better bats, and that’s the FO priority, catcher D being secondary.
We all want Herrera to succeed, and he will get his opportunities.
I expect Ivan will gradually lose 40 to 50 points of his career BAbip. He is still a small sample size.
The throwing to bases has to improve. A single digit caught stealing %, while the league averages 20% or +, turns a walk into a double too many times.
I can anticipate Ivan’s two strike pitch types at too good of a %. I don’t know whether that’s the pre-written script, or Ivan’s patterns he’s unaware of.
If he’s our starting catcher, I’ll be looking for development going forward, of these concerns.
I can see where not having a productive middle of the order is a reason to just try to shoehorn all the bats you have into the lineup. That seems like a tactic that hopefully pulls out a .500 season. The worrying thing is that there is no middle of the order on the horizon unless Bill ponies up to buy it. I’m already tired of .500 seasons, so I don’t care if they can pull it off. Stuffing all the 1B/DH types and UTs into the lineup isn’t helping build anything.
Bling, your take on the situation is correct as long as everyone is ready to accept a couple of seasons with a .400 win %. The ownership and front office may be but I suspect a majority of the fan base doesn’t have the stomach for that.
The contract of Ryan Loutos, who was on outright waivers, has been sold to the Dodgers. He joins their 40-man roster and was assigned to Triple-A.
Loutos would not have been my choice to DFA and on the pitching side I would have DFA’ed Munoz and Roycroft before him. Now that the Dodgers acquired him I feel more confident in this as they will likely turn him into a viable bullpen piece.
I have long thought that Loutos resisted efforts to get him to add a few ticks, rev the spin rate and blow out his arm like the Cardinals pitching development likes to do.
RHP Zane Mills has been transferred from Memphis (AAA) to Springfield (AA).
RHP Chen-Wei Lin (A+) will begin a rehab assignment with Palm Beach (A).
INF/OF Jacob Buchberger (AA) has been transferred from the 60-day IL to the Full Season IL.
— Cardinals Player Development (@CardsPlayerDev) May 2, 2025
I have long thought that Loutos resisted efforts to get him to add a few ticks, rev the spin rate and blow out his arm like the Cardinals pitching development likes to do.
You realize Loutos is very heavy into analytics and has a computer science degree right? When he isn’t playing, he is working on analytics for the org and has developed and app to help minor leagues interpret analytic data. Mo said if it doesn’t work out as a player, Loutos would be looked at for the front office.
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