- This topic has 2,485 replies, 63 voices, and was last updated 2 weeks ago by
.
-
Posts
-
it is hard for me to see how fringe guys are going to make a difference for St. Louis this season.
I am not talking about these guys pushing onto the roster and making a difference this season. Rather, getting a look at them in MLB to inform potential deadline trade decisions that may take one or more of those you mention off the board.
For example, the chance to get a starter with some years of control that Mo wants comes along and Burleson is gone as part of a deal. Now Mo has no choice but to sign Goldy whether he was wanting to or not since Baker as an everyday player is an unknown. He could crater like Walker. Then if what we are seeing sometimes from Goldy this season progresses to all the time next season, it is dead money and we hope for the best with Baker anyway. Any such move would be better addressed with a better idea of what we have to plug the hole. It just does not make sense to not manage what little we have to better advantage.
The problem is for them to get a spot on the MLB roster even for a trial, you have to push someone down. You can’t send Crawford or Carp down. Both would have to be released and you don’t want to release them just to give someone a shot as if it doesn’t work out, well now you have much less org depth.
The organization is managed in a way that gives us the best chance to limp into postseason. I do not dispute that.
How would Dunn, Koperniak, Baker going to be the pivotal changes to make us legit playoff contenders? They are all depth options with very limited if any trade value. Come the playoffs, they won’t see playing time as you stick start you best and there is no need for a start per week from a bench player. The best a bench player can do is PH, and out of those, Baker is the best option as a RH. As long as he is on the 40 man by the first day of September though, he could join the playoff roster even if not having been on the MLB club.
I guess I am having trouble making my point. Those players are not going to be pivotal making us legit playoff contenders. Seeing them in MLB for a decent trial will inform deadline trade decisions which would take other pieces off the board, like Noot, Goldy, Donovan, Edman, Gorman, Carlson or Burleson, for example. We know we lack depth. My point is it would be useful to know something useful about the limited potential depth pieces we do have.
Cardinals have selected Gordon Graceffo, optioned Kyle Leahy, moved Steven Matz to the 60-day IL.
Per Jeff Jones on X
I think we have plenty of depth. A roster full of pitchers and position players most near the same average level. What we don’t have is enough above average players
I don’t think what you’re asking for is practical.
First, you’d have to displace 2 players from the 40 man roster. That likely means losing some players to other teams, especially if/when Edman returns from the 60-day IL. Raposo can be DFA’d. Matz can move to the 60-day IL. Then they’d have to cut a reliever when Edman returns. This is the least problematic.
Second, you’d have to find a spot on the 26-man roster for them. Fermin is already going down when Nootbaar returns. So now you’re going to send out who? Cut Carpenter? Send down Carlson? Send down Gorman? How do you get Koperniak and Dunn and Baker all up? We can’t lose a pitcher. The bullpen is already short. We also likely have Herrera returning soon.
Third – because there’s just a month to go before the deadline, these guys are going to have to play every day to get enough time in to get a good look at them. That means they will have to displace our regulars. But we’re a playoff contender. Do we really want to have our starters sit most of the month so that these 3 can all play? What happens when Dunn inevitably hits .230 with only singles and plays mediocre defense? The team would look foolish. Plus, it’s not as though any of these 3 are good complements to what we have. Dunn bats lefty along with Gorman. Koperniak bats lefty along with our entire starting outfield. Baker bats righty along with Goldschmidt.
In a world where roster spots were infinite and opportunity for playing time is infinite, then yes, by all means bring up these guys so we can see what they can do at the next level. However, in the real world it doesn’t work that easy. We have to use our best judgment based on past performance at different levels to make reasonable decisions.
Roster News: RHP Gordon Graceffo has been selected from Memphis (AAA). He will be making his Major League debut and will wear #67.
RHP Kyle Leahy has been optioned to Memphis.
To make room on the 40-player roster, LHP Steven Matz has been transferred to the 60-day IL. pic.twitter.com/BwZOOqJeYj
— St. Louis Cardinals (@Cardinals) June 28, 2024
Seeing them in MLB for a decent trial will inform deadline trade decisions which would take other pieces off the board, like Noot, Goldy, Donovan, Edman, Gorman, Carlson or Burleson, for example.
I just don’t see this being realistic. We are in contention and Mo will want to improve the team, not subtract. I personally would like a hybrid approach, but we aren’t going to subtract bats. If anything, we will add more. We could trade Carlson, but I would be quite confident in place we would trade a mid tier prospect for a good RH bench OF bat like Pham.
I would like to see the younger guys get a chance, but when it makes sense as an org. Dunn and Koperniak are really hurt by being LH as we do not need more lefties. When rosters expand, one of them may get a chance. I’m also not a fan of having both Crawford and Carp as that is part of our LH heavy bench. When Edman comes back, we will see what happens with Crawford. I could see them easing Edman in and using him as a super util type to back up SS and get time all over the place. Maybe Crawford could go then, but we need a SS backup in the meantime.
Mo will want to improve the team, not subtract.
I agree. I have previously argued for trading from strength to address weakness. That is not subtracting.
It is not realistic to expect BDW to just whip out his checkbook and buy what we need. It is also not realistic to think we can get what we need by trading spare parts. Getting what we need may well involve taking a feature piece off our table. Mo has to know if he can or can’t plug the hole with in house resources. I consider it malpractice not to have informed himself as best he can.
So what you want to tell someone like Donovan sorry we are benching you for a couple of weeks to see if someone can take your spot and trade you? To get them playing time, you have to take away from the current staters, and none of those guys are better than what we have. If they were, they would be on the big league roster or another team would have traded for them since the Cards don’t value them. You’re also going to hurt the teams chances of actually winning games and we may just drop right out of the race.
I’m not arguing Fermin is better than Dunn. In a vacuum, I’d rather have Dunn. He’s a pesky hitter who is kind of fun to watch. But Fermin has 4 advantages:
1) He’s hit better at AAA than Dunn this season.
2) He’s right handed. That complements Gorman or a slew of other lefties. That doesn’t make much difference if he doesn’t hit well. But still, the Cardinals don’t need to keep adding lefties.
3) Fermin is more versatile. He’s better at 2B, probably better at 3B, and he can play corner outfield or SS in a pinch.
4) Fermin is on the 40 man roster. Putting Dunn on the team in his place likely means we have to lose Fermin to another team and we lose the above advantages.
In a small sample size, there’s not much difference between .195 and .230. That’s like 1 hit.
Dunn hitting .230? Heck of an improvement over Fermin’s .195 in June!
I am not sure who is hitting .230 but it is not Dunn.
His line in June: .413/.451/.603/1.054
For the season so far: .346/.398/.549/.947
He is raking. Could he come close to that in MLB? Apparently, finding out would be of no interest.
What if the opportunity arises to get a starter we want and Arenado is part of it? Well, we need an everyday 3B? Who might that be? Firmin hitting .185? Our left fielder Donovan? Or perhaps Gorman? What holes are we opening up? What resources do we have to fill them? What if Gorman were part of it instead? Same questions. Why would Mo have any need to know any of that? Just hire a bunch of 4A guys again next winter so we have plan B, C and D. Something is bound to work even if that something is Firmin in the lineup batting .185. That is his Mo’s M.O. I do not understand why people want him to keep doing what he does. The team will continue to be crappy.
Tryouts occur when the season is in the crater like last year. Right now, anyone called up is going to be due to injury.
His line in June: .413/.451/.603/1.054
For the season so far: .346/.398/.549/.947
Fermin’s stats in AAA this year: .346/.461/.615/1.076
Looks like Fermin’s season is better than Dunn’s best month.
Its not like Mo is going in blind to the trade deadline with no idea what Dunn etc can do. The Cards and all the other orga have a plethora of data and scouting reports on the guy. If other teams valued Dunn more than the Cards do, they would trade for him. If someone gets traded in the big league roster, the org already will have a very good idea of what they want to do.
In general, AAA stats are just that, AAA stats. Fermin lit the world on fire in AAA and was the flavor of the month recently here. Now it is Dunn’s turn to be the flavor of the month. Unfortunately the diff between AAA and MLB pitching is humongous and just having a good batting average doesn’t mean the bat won’t get knocked out of your hand in the majors. Some skills and profiles are better suited for MLB even if they underperform others in AAA.
I would be very surprised if the Cardinals traded someone like Arenado or Goldy while sitting in a playoff spot. I know they did the Bader-Monty trade a couple of years ago but a more likely scenario is that they dip into the prospect list to trade for the players they want.
I did not expect Bosiokovic to make the team. Interesting.
He’s been pretty good since the team picked him back up from the netherworld.
I assumed Graceffo would go back down. I didn’t expect Bosiokovic to take his place, but I haven’t looked at the AAA RP usage for guys like Loutos and Roycroft.
Does anyone know how Herrera’s injury situation is? He is eligible to come off the IL in a couple days. I can’t see the org turning the page on him even though Pages as the 2nd catcher makes sense, given the SB problem. It’s one of those forks in the road Yogi talked about.
I don’t know when Herrera will return but he seems like prime trade bait to me when healthy.
I am assuming that Bosiokovic got the call because he was the most rested otherwise it probably should have been Roycroft. Roycroft has been rather impressive this year IMO.
- The topic ‘Roster Matrix’ is closed to new replies.