Home › The Cardinal Nation Forums › Open Forum › Paul Goldschmidt Thread
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December 5, 2018 at 7:24 pm #76157
Another Christmas present idea:
“Prospects Are Cool, Parades Are Cooler” graphic tee, pullover hoodie, and tank by Casey Stern. | Cotton Bureau https://t.co/rexsDj0SKA
— Casey Stern (@CaseyStern) December 6, 2018
December 5, 2018 at 7:28 pm #76158Something we haven’t talked much about.
You think Paul Goldschmidt will only help out the #STLCArds run production? This is a team that made an MLB-leading 20 errors at first base last season, with the worst fielding percentage in baseball. Goldschmidt, a 3-time Gold Glove winner, has never made more than 7 in a year.
— Bob Nightengale (@BNightengale) December 6, 2018
December 5, 2018 at 7:52 pm #76164Whew! Thank God they didn’t fleece us out of Fagalde in the transaction. Of the four assets heading west, the only one that troubles me is Young…..who has the potential to be real special. I love the deal though. “Goldy” is a “lock” to change the complexion of the entire lineup in a positive fashion. For me, I believe he’s going to join that elite club of Cardinal hitters who gets your heart and adrenalin a dancing every time they put a bat in hand. Dick Allen…George Hendrick…Jack Clark…Albert…..and now Goldy. Sweet!!….nice to have another one of these rarities in the Redbird fold!
December 5, 2018 at 8:01 pm #76165Mr. Walton? Pugs?
Do you agree or disagree here? If there is any thing left to the age old saying that “Players fall in love with St. Louis and their fans” then Goldschmidt will either sign an extension early or will indeed resign with the Cardinals.
If Goldschmidt decides to leave St. Louis after 2019 then its a big indication that the age old sales pitch of the “Best Baseball Town In America” has gone by the wayside.
Thoughts?
r/Rat
December 5, 2018 at 8:17 pm #76167Rats, an individual situation is just that – individually-dependent. No matter what happens with Goldschmidt, extension or not, I would not consider it to the be rule for everyone else in the future. Having said that, I believe the old days of hometown discounts for the privilege of playing for the Cardinals is long gone already. They are going to have to pay market value at least for free agents.
I think re-signing Goldschmidt early will be tough. Earlier in this thread, there is info from a media person from Arizona who I respect who said Goldy’s agent likes to steer his clients to major markets.
But, I have also read that he is a quiet person, not a limelight-seeker, so many he will find a home in StL.
Again, that will likely have next to nothing to do with the decision of the next guy after him.
IMO, what would most incent players to come to StL would be for the team to again become a perennial World Series contender. That is going to take time to reestablish.
December 5, 2018 at 8:19 pm #76168If he leaves after one year, the Cards get a high draft pick, and simply re-install Carp back at first base. Then Gyorko takes over at third. Or maybe Elhuris Montero is such a phenom that he’s ready for the MLB hot corner at 21. Stranger things have happened. Goldy leaving would not gut the team, not at all.
It would merely leave the Birds with the same personnel that just finished 4th in the N.L. in runs per game, and 2nd in road OPS behind only the pennant-winning Dodgers. Carp and Yadi would be old, of course. But Bader, O’Neill, and DeJong would be in their primes in 2020.
So I don’t think the calculus changes much, depending on whether Goldy sticks around or not. If he goes after 2019, you probably got a great season for cheap money, and a draft pick afterwards. If he stays, you’ll be paying full market value for a player in his early 30’s already — sometimes a fair deal but very rarely a bargain for the buyer, folks.
December 5, 2018 at 8:41 pm #76173I love this trade if it is for 1 year go.(Even better if Goldy signs a 1 year extension but no way in hell he would do that).**BUT** His declining ability to hit a ++Fastball tells me any contract extension would be regrettable by 21.
Add in that this trade cost us a chance at Harper makes it even worse. Yes I know there is no guarantee to get Harper, but you gotta pass on Goldy if there is still a chance for that.
Will say I really wish they would of signed Donaldson for 1 year now. Trade Wong, and go for it in 19. Overall I think this trade will continue to keep us in that weird situation. Situation where we are not WS contenders, but good enough where the FO keeps adding 1 piece every year for another go at it. Welcome to mediocrity.
December 5, 2018 at 8:53 pm #76177Trade Wong?
Uh, what for?
And, uh, who plays 2nd?
December 5, 2018 at 9:09 pm #76179WHy Trade a gold glove defensive 2B who was hitting last year…why downgrade if you are “going for it?
December 5, 2018 at 9:09 pm #76180MO should be arrested for robbery after this trade, you get a dynamic bat that was desperately needed who is also a gold glove defender at first….you give up Weaver who really regressed last year and you have other arms coming up, Kelly is about to be passed up in the organization by Knizer and is blocked by Molina and a prospect who could be good down the line.
Even if you get one year it’s still a great trade b/c Goldschmidt only makes $14 mill, so you should be able to add another bat and a reliever hopefully
December 5, 2018 at 10:33 pm #76194The fact that the Cards first baseman made 20 errors is atrocious. So we improve in 2 ways. Not nuts about Carp at 3rd, but his defensive stats were okay. And he has one year, plus option year on his contract.
December 5, 2018 at 10:35 pm #76195Now go get Taylor Rogers. Jmart or Gyorko plus Gant might do the trick if the Twins throw in a prospect.
December 5, 2018 at 10:37 pm #76196Maybe he should be arrested. If for some reason Goldschmidt ends up on the shelf for any extended period of time and the Cardinals with more off season moves yet to be made fail to make the postseason. He’ll be raked through the coals.
It’s a good short term move. Now we’ve got to shore up the pen, make a move for a lefty bat and deal a couple guys. Work still to be done! Plus Carpenter moves to 3rd with that arm. I know he graded out well there but it’s a different season.
December 5, 2018 at 10:53 pm #76198Fact: Goldschmidt has AVERAGED 158 games over the last FOUR years and hasn’t been on the DL since 2014. I can’t imagine how they could have found a more durable, dependable player. Every cloud does not have a dark lining.
December 5, 2018 at 11:04 pm #76199bccranParticipantTerrific trade. And I wouldn’t be surprised if he finishes his career as a Cardinal. Whether he goes FA at the end of 2019 or not.
December 6, 2018 at 6:26 am #76205A few more observations:
First, I love the Casey stern t-shirt!! That is one of my favorite tag lines.
Goold and Langosch both reported that the Cardinals did not request a 72 hour negotiating period for an extension contrary to reports yesterday.
If Goldy leaves after 2019 don’t assume we go back to Carp at 1B and Gyroko at 3B. Both of them could be free agents after next year along with Goldy, Ozuna, Wacha, Mikolas, Gregerson, and Wainwright. That is potentially $72M coming off the books. The Cardinals would have the payroll space to do whatever they wanted. Maybe Goldy and Arenado? Who knows?
Goldschmidt is basically Jack Clark without all the baggage and DL trips.
We just got one of the 5 best players in the NL without giving up Hudson, Hicks, Reyes, or Gorman. Our payroll is now at $150M so I could see us spending another $25M -$30M this winter which should be plenty to fix the bullpen and a LH bench bat.
This was a steal of a trade for the Cardinals.
December 6, 2018 at 7:04 am #76207Excellent thoughts, Scott. I agree…this is a fantastic deal. It improves the team 3-4 wins right off, IMO (+1 at 1B, +2 at 3B). If RF becomes at least average (and it should with O’Neill stepping up and Fowler becoming more like his career norm than the black hole of 2017), there is another 2 wins. The bullpen could easily be upgraded by 2-4 wins, maybe more. So I see this as a 94-96 win team when all is said and done. I think that passes the Cubs, and we’ll see what the Brewers do.
December 6, 2018 at 7:59 am #76208bccranParticipantAnother plus is that getting Goldy puts all the talk about a $350-400 million free agent to bed.
December 6, 2018 at 8:56 am #76218A small matter, but I guess Goldschmidt wiil wear #44, right? I may be crazy, but I want a jersey.
December 6, 2018 at 8:58 am #76220I also want one of the Got Rings tee shirts. Haven’t seen them for a while.
December 6, 2018 at 9:03 am #76222Love this deal, even if it is only for a year of Goldy. Weaver is too inconsistent with his command, although most of our young pitchers have that issue.
Kelly is a little hard to part with, as we will need a catcher in a couple of years with Molina aging. But Goldschmidt is a premier player and we have a couple of years to give guys like Knizner a chance to hone their skills.
Not real big on Carpenter at third for a full season, but he was okay there last year in limited duty. Still, you gotta do that as Goldschmidt and a healthy Ozuna could be a huge 1-2 punch in the middle of the order.
December 6, 2018 at 9:04 am #76223December 6, 2018 at 9:10 am #76227I like this deal for us. We dealt from our position of strengths to fill a weakness. We have another catcher in waiting so that made Kelly expendable and we have like 9 starting pitchers so no need to keep Weaver. Goldy covers our biggest perceived weaknesses first base and middle of the order bat. Sold move and good 1 year gamble. We have a sold track record of signing players like this long term just hope the contract isn’t bad.
Only big worry now is bullpen and Carps defense at third.
December 6, 2018 at 9:17 am #76228NJ315ParticipantI am very happy for Kelly. Hope he is very successful in his career. Now we only need to sign a 50 yr old backup catcher and Yadi will very happy.
December 6, 2018 at 9:31 am #76231Although not being thrilled about Carpenter being moved back to third, at least double switches can be done bringing in Gyorko or Wisdom. I have watched Wisdom some on MILB, and he is probably a better defender than Gyorko. With a defensive replacement at third, and Goldie playing first the infield defense should be much better. Even with Carp still in the game Goldie can dig out some of his throws.
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