Paul Goldschmidt Thread

Home The Cardinal Nation Forums Open Forum Paul Goldschmidt Thread

This topic contains 468 replies, has 46 voices, and was last updated by stlcard25 stlcard25 7 months, 3 weeks ago.

Viewing 25 posts - 426 through 450 (of 469 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #84363
    Avatar
    858booyah
    Participant

    Free

    I mean it makes perfect sense where they can get the money from to make this happen. Decline Gyorko’s 13 million dollar option and pay him 1 million to go away and let Marcel hit free agency and there’s 24,250,000 million right there. lol

    That’s .900 ops 100 RBI production at least for that amount of coin the majority of that deal. If he does that 3 out of the 5 years then it’s a solid gamble. I just don’t understand the rush.

    #84367
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual
    #84368
    Avatar
    PugsleyAddams
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    He’s a smart man. There is litte doubt that a player such as Goldy has HoF aspirations. His numbers look like he’s probably going to be teetering right on the fringe of enshrinement when he hangs them up 6-7 years from now. What will put him over the top will be a world’s championship or two. I think as Goldy assessed his opportunities, the Cardinal organization and particularly the gold rush of quality young pitching, cemented his desire to finish his career in St. Louis. As a Cardinal fan, I feel really good about that.

    #84392
    Avatar
    mspaid
    Participant

    I am impressed. God job, Junior. Having him in tow until 24 could yield great possibilities. If they can just replace Fowler this winter with a real player then who knows what might happen.

    #84393
    Avatar
    mudville
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I fully expected them to sign Goldschmidt. But now that it has actually happened, I am thrilled. If he starts breaking down before the end of his contract, Montero or Nunez can start taking some of his innings. For now, why worry about it? This is great news. It would have been a disaster if they hadn’t extended him because the fan base would have felt betrayed by the front office, IMO. Time to pause for a celebration, and that will apparently happen tomorrow.

    #84405
    Avatar
    Bw52
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Harper isnt that good? A player heading into his 26-30 seasons..prime seasons...And comparing Carp and Harper....I like Carpenter and I like Goldy but I do wonder about the extension of a player past 30 when you could have taken a shot at a player heading into his prime.The Harper isnt that good nonsense is ridiculous.

    #84406
    Avatar
    14NyquisT
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Great job by the FO! I didn’t think that they had it in them. Goldschmidt should be a cornerstone for the years of his contract. This is the best news that the team has had in years. Flaherty is next on the list.
    After so much disappointment we needed this.

    #84408
    Avatar
    14NyquisT
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Goldschmidt> Harper or Machado.

    #84416
    stlcard25
    stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    BW, I didn’t say Harper isn’t good. I said that he isn’t as good as the contract he is getting. It’s all hype. I already showed that Carpenter and Harper were approximately the same value since they broke into the league (and both well behind Goldy), and with modern aging curves it’s likely that Harper won’t beat Marp’s accumulated WAR by that much over the first 7 years of the deal. Unless you really value home runs, I’m not even that certain that Harper will age better than Marp.

    So I’ll ask again…was Matt Carpenter *worth* a 13 year, $330M deal at the start of his career? If not, then Harper shouldn’t have been that exciting to you at that price.

    #84417
    Avatar
    Onyxgem
    Participant

    Free

    Considering Harper’s first 7 years started at the age of 19 and Carp’s started at the age of 26 that in itself is a huge difference…..and as for War, right now Harper has Carp beat in career WAR as it is…..and he is 26!

    #84419
    Avatar
    Bw52
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Well said- Onyxgem

    #84429
    Avatar
    14NyquisT
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Mark Saxon

    @markasaxon
    Follow Follow @markasaxon
    More

    Some people think St. Louis is boring. Some people think Paul Goldschmidt is a boring superstar. A match made in heaven.

    I had to chuckle at this! Sounds right to me.

    #84430
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Please explain why Harper’s “best years are ahead of him” when his only true exceptional season was four years ago – at age 22? It was his only season being voted anywhere in the top 10 in the MVP voting. He is good, but this hope that he will return to 2015 levels of performance is just that – hope.

    This is just a theory on my part, but we first read about Harper at about 14 years of age. He was groomed and developed to be what he is. He did not need all of that development time early so perhaps his peak was really earlier than the traditional player who played in college and worked this way through the minor leagues.

    On the other hand, Goldschmidt has been very, very consistently good. No wide variance in annual results. Four top six MVP placements, including two seconds and a third. Predictable is boring, but predictable.

    #84433
    Avatar
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I would take Goldy over Harper every day of the week. Not even close.

    Stl25, good job pointing out the values of Harper and Carp. The one thing I would say about Harper is that he does bring a lot of marketing value to a club with jersey sales, ticket sales, etc…. Good grief I think the Phillies sold 100,000 tickets within one day of the signing. Of course 13 years is a long time. Things could go sour.

    #84434
    Avatar
    Bw52
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Considering that most players hit their prime in their late 20s I think its a fair chance Harper can improve and raise his game a bit.I am not knocking the Goldschimdt extension I worry about extending a player over 30 years old.I do admit players are better conditioned and baseball is pretty much a year long job anymore.. players dont get real out of shape during the winter and use all Spring training to get in shae like the old days.Speaking of “hope” ..don`t we Cards fans “hope “Goldy can continue to perform well until the end of his contract? After his stats declined last season from the previous year?

    #84435
    Avatar
    NJ315
    Participant

    That’s why I love baseball! We will find out in the coming years whether Harper’s best years are indeed ahead of him and whether Goldy will stay predictably boring or decline with age.

    #84437
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Agreed, NJ. Predictions are worth nothing compared to results.

    #84438
    Avatar
    Bw52
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Matt Carpenter is poor at 3B,adequate at 1b,can`t hit anywhere but leadoff and is a liability n the basepaths.He walks a lot and he strike outs a lot.His brainlock about hitting anywhere but leadoff is silly.I like Carpenter but I think he is overvalued by many on here.

    #84439
    Avatar
    Bw52
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Since we dont know future results yet then all these discussions are nothing but discussion.

    #84440
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Goldschmidt’s OPS+

    2016 133
    2017 140
    2018 139

    Goldschmidt’s fWAR

    2016 4.9
    2017 5.2
    2018 5.1

    My goodness! What a down year he had in 2018! Why don’t you share Harper’s numbers in recent years?

    #84442
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    It must be a depressing time to be a Diamondbacks fan. Last year, they lost JD Martinez. This winter, it was AJ Pollock and Goldschmidt. Hard to believe their ownership couldn’t have afforded the $130 MM to keep their homegrown star in Goldy for his entire career.

    #84454
    Avatar
    Bw52
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    You miss my point Brian…….Besides being snarky at me…….. I simply ask why harper was not considered since most players hit their prime in their late 20`s? You imply that Harper maybe we have seen the best of harper……..I disagree.For the record I have nothing against the Goldy extension.Glad he likes the Cards enough to stay for the long haul.I really hope he stays consistently good and boring.

    #84457
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    You made a number of points. This is the one my prior comment was directed to.

    “Speaking of “hope” ..don`t we Cards fans “hope “Goldy can continue to perform well until the end of his contract? After his stats declined last season from the previous year?

    #84459
    Avatar
    NJ315
    Participant

    Interesting discussion. I wanted Harper for various reasons.
    1. Age
    2. Lefty hitter
    3. Preferred getting OF over 1B. I wanted Carp to stay at 1B
    4. He is overhyped but he still a good player and I was willing to overpay because he generates lots of different revenue streams. He brings attitude some may say bad attitude and that may be true but attitude is something this team hasn’t had since Albert left.
    5. He will bring in the millenial fans and create a younger more enthusiastic crowd.

    I never thought or expected him to be better than Goldy, just a better fit for the team overall. Overpaying and giving him 10 years was the price I thought it was fair to pay.

    At the end it doesn’t matter. We have Goldy and he an elite player no doubt about that. But we are not getting 26-31 Goldy. We are getting 31-36 Goldy and he will decline there is no doubt how much remains to be seen. Harper can flame out too even at his age.

    My only objection to this discussion is how dismissive the pro Goldy crowd is of those of us that preferred Harper. Harper is not and may never be as good as Goldy. The hubris in declaring Goldy the clear cut better choice for the team is annoying.

    #84461
    Avatar
    Bw52
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Well said NJ.My point was IMO the Cards could have gotten the prime years of Harper versus Goldy after 30.I probably did not explain myself clear enough.Not a big deal.Goldy is here and heres hoping for 6 great years from him.

Viewing 25 posts - 426 through 450 (of 469 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

First-hand news and commentary on the St. Louis Cardinals™ and their minor league system for 20 years