November 25, 2018 at 12:09 pm #75028
Buster Olney is also saying Astros although he says that the Cardinals are still “involved”.November 26, 2018 at 8:12 am #75061
From Ken Rosenthal regarding Arizona:
What would it be worth to them to escape a significant portion of right-hander Zack Greinke’s contract? Would it be worth attaching him to first baseman Paul Goldschmidt, even if it means taking lesser talent in return?
The answer, according to sources, is no.
Sources say the Cardinals have kicked around internally the idea of acquiring Goldschmidt and Greinke in the same deal, but the likelihood of such a trade occurring is remote, in part because St. Louis is one of the clubs on Greinke’s 15-team no-trade list.November 26, 2018 at 9:18 am #75066Bw52ParticipantPaid - Annual
I just don
t buy the fascination with Adolis Garcia as a bigtime prospect or trade bait.He is almost 3 years older than Oneill,has a high K rate and walks rarely .His main asset is his arm.O`neill is doing what Adolis wishes he could do……running thebases,playing defense and hitting homeruns.I do think its early to judge Adolis and he might turn into a asset instead of a costly AAAA player.As for the nonsense about him only being in the system for a couple of years people forget that he played Cuban league ball for years.So far count me as not a fan of what he brings .Lane Thomas does the same things and also is nearly 3 years younger.November 26, 2018 at 11:42 am #75075
A source says the teams discussed a package that would have included Zach Eflin & several young players. But the deal fell apart when the Phillies tried to add Carlos Santana
— Jayson Stark (@jaysonst) November 26, 2018November 26, 2018 at 12:14 pm #75078858booyahParticipantFree
There’s deferred money on that Grienke contract. So the acquiring team will be playing him a few years after his contract is complete.
The ideal situation is just getting Goldschmidt. Now I wouldn’t be opposed to taking on both if Grienke wants to waive his no trade but then you almost have to deal contract(s) off the roster if you indeed want to fix your bullpen. Unless Dewitt just goes wild and wants to spend, spend, spend!!!November 26, 2018 at 1:10 pm #75080
As Rosenthal said, there are multiple reasons for the package idea (Greinke and Goldschmidt) to be considered remote.November 28, 2018 at 8:21 am #75252
This guy is not mainstream media but he has reported rumors in the past that were not as crazy as his name. (He includes a number of his earlier rumor tweets, apparently to build his credibility.)
— IB ? ? (@incarceratedbob) November 28, 2018November 28, 2018 at 9:28 am #75257
Interesting. If the price isn’t terribly steep (as in, we don’t give up Flaherty, Reyes, Gorman or Montero), I’d be very happy to add Goldy. Carp at 3rd is fine. Our up the middle defense might get the best in the majors and if Ozuna’s shoulder heals and O’Neill starts most games in RF, we’ll have plus defense at literally every position besides 3rd.November 28, 2018 at 10:14 am #75268jj-cf-stlParticipantPaid - Annual
Philly had Eflin in a package for Goldy but tried to force Santana in too.
Gant is in Eflins service yrs class, and has better value.
Be ideal if stl could send Gant (4yrs) / Brebbia (5yrs) type yrs of control.November 28, 2018 at 10:33 am #75269
I like Gant but if he’s a piece that goes, I won’t miss him. Something like Weaver, Gant, and Arozarena? Seems like that would be a fair package for both teams and give good value to Arizona with nice potential upside.November 28, 2018 at 4:23 pm #75293jj-cf-stlParticipantPaid - Annual
Thats a lot of value for one season of Goldy. Question is, what would other teams offer.November 28, 2018 at 4:56 pm #75295
Well, if the rumors are to be believed, they offered Flaherty for Donaldson last year. I don’t think the loss of any of the three I mentioned is close to crippling long term for St Louis, yet it might be a nice haul for a potential rebuild in Arizona.
If the Astros are the chief competition, I’m sure they could offer something quite attractive from their good farm system.November 28, 2018 at 5:16 pm #75297
JMO, but I would gladly give Arizona three players not central to St. Louis’ plans. However, if I am Arizona, I am going to want at least one front-liner. Weaver would have been a year ago, but is a question mark now. Gant is what he is, with little upside.
Another data point. The Cards got two years of Ozuna for Alcantara, Sierra, Gallen and Castano. Three of the four were slated to be among our top 11 Cardinals prospects for 2018.
Guess it all depends on what Arizona is after…November 30, 2018 at 7:49 am #75398
There’s been a lot of talk about trading Paul Goldschmidt. But one rival (of Arizona) predicted, “They will not trade Goldschmidt.”November 30, 2018 at 8:13 am #75401bicyclemikeModeratorPaid - Annual
Trading Goldy would be a big public relations hit to the Phoenix-area fan base, so in that sense it would seem the D-Backs are reluctant to trade their star first baseman. Sometimes you gotta do those things though and target a 3-to-5 year out bracket in which to make a run. They have that behemoth in their division (Dodgers) to compete against, and that makes it tough.
The Rockies are in a similar situation. They are right there ready to upend LA, but have the Arenado free agency looming.
Speaking of which, it might be better for St. Louis to hold on for a year, and make a serious run at Arenado in 2019. That way you keep Carp at first, and have a premier player on both sides at third base.
Personally I would forget both Harper and Goldschmidt and target Arenado for next year. There is that chance the Rockies are able to re-sign the slugger before he hits free agency, but my guess is he will at least test the market.November 30, 2018 at 8:34 am #75405
On another board I had a big discussion about Arenado the other day. Some guy was all over the idea that the Cards should trade for Arenado right now instead of Goldschmidt, glossing over the fact there have been no indications that Arenado is available. (Reminded me of a discussion I had with Nate a few years back when he said the Cards should send the “entire farm system” to Arizona for Goldy.) Sure, the Cards can ask about Arenado, but it would likely be a very short conversation.
Arenado said he wants to play for a perennial contender. There is no reason to think he would see StL as any better than Colorado – and even that may be a stretch.
In the last three years, StL has won 257 games, Colorado 253. Playoff appearances the last three years: StL 0, Colorado 2.
Last year, the Cards were 13th in payroll and the Rockies 14th. In other words, if the Cards could afford him, the Rockies should be able to, also. IMO, Colorado really needs to hold onto its franchise cornerstone. But if he hits the market, he will set off huge bidding wars.
Having said all that, if there could be any way to be SURE that Arenado would hit the market next fall, yes, in an ideal world, I would consider waiting. But after three years of misses, the Cardinals are not in that good place. They do not have the luxury of waiting for something that might or might not occur 12 months from now and which they have zero control over.
November 30, 2018 at 8:46 am #75406
- This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by Brian Walton.
Things can change a lot in a year. The Cards have the potential to look a lot more like a perennial contender in a year with the quantity of young pitching they possess. Arenado doesn’t seem as much like an East Coast guy or a big endorsement guy so maybe St Louis would have some appeal as a free agent. Of course, it comes down to the $$ ultimately.November 30, 2018 at 8:48 am #75408
Arenado is from Southern California. Any “perennial contenders” from that area with big payrolls? 😉
Regarding next year, with no significant changes, the Cards will likely be projected to finish in third place again.
P.S. We can kid ourselves otherwise by looking backward at a long, rich history, but StL is no longer a prime destination for free agents. Like other clubs in a similar boat, the Cards may have to overpay to get the plums. Arenado would have zero reason to take less than other offers to come to StL. The Cards have their algorithms that indicate a player’s value. They stick to that and come in second place in free agent acquisitions. At some point, the pattern has to be broken.November 30, 2018 at 9:00 am #75411
I edited that before your response. Ha. What I meant is the east coast so perhaps he won’t be as drawn by teams like the Yankees and Sox and company. But yes, the Dodgers and ever-wasteful Angels would certainly be a draw, and maybe even the Padres if they can turn the corner.November 30, 2018 at 9:12 am #75414
Anyway, to not hijack this thread, I’m still all in on Goldschmidt. Then trade Jedd or Jmart for relief help and kick the tires on another bullpen arm if you can upgrade. Make a run at Kikuchi. That team would challenge the Cubs and Brewers if the terrible injury luck takes a year off.November 30, 2018 at 9:18 am #75415
As another point of reference, the Brewers have shown they are not scared of acquiring players in their walk year and those additions helped put them at the top of the division.
(I also saw rumors that Milwaukee is looking into Syndergaard and Bumgarner. They are not going away.)November 30, 2018 at 9:26 am #75416
Yep, there are kind of a ridiculous number of potential impact players on the market this year. If the Cards sit on their hands, I’d actually prefer a tear down this coming year to a patch job and hope for 88 wins again.
Also, I think the Brewers got career years from a number of guys that they will likely not replicate. The Cards got career worst years from a number of guys that I expect they will not replicate. Both teams seem to be acting like they understand this early on, at least. Doesn’t mean either will fully act on it, but we’ll see what happens.November 30, 2018 at 9:42 am #75417NJ315Participant
Grab the 26 yr old left hitting RF while you can.November 30, 2018 at 9:53 am #75418
Arenado is a great player but we have three 3B in the minors who could all become MLB starters. Unless they can play other positions we would have to trade them if we locked up Arenado long term. I think it makes more sense to acquire and lock up Goldy long term. The Dbacks may say they don’t want to trade Goldy but that doesn’t mean they won’t do it. If not now then they will in July because I highly doubt they will be in contention.November 30, 2018 at 10:42 am #75438
stlcard25, I discounted Milwaukee once, too, but for the record, they have finished ahead of St. Louis in the standings in each of the last two years. Over the last three years, they have 255 wins. StL has 257. Hard to call that a fluke (not that you did).
If the Brewers get better pitching, watch out!
- This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by Brian Walton.
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