March 22, 2019 at 1:38 pm #84462
Nj – please explain the revenue streams u think Harper brings that Goldy doesnt. So much of revenue is pooled that (such as jersey sales) that it is not clear what these revenue streams would be.March 22, 2019 at 1:51 pm #84463NJ315Participant
Younger fans eat and drink more, buy much more than just jersey’s. As a draw to fans Harper is a much better draw than Goldy and would bring more money than Goldy. But this is the only point you had a problem with?March 22, 2019 at 2:19 pm #84469
I had no problem with any point. Just a question. I am not sure I agree with your assumptions though. In the end, I think winning brings in the most revenue.March 22, 2019 at 4:18 pm #84475jj-cf-stlParticipantFree
5/150mil estimates turned into a club friendly 5/130mil. Awesome.
So Goldy needs to avg 3.25 war for 5 seasons. Not a huge hurdle even with age related decline factored in.
Oh yah, the Cardinals are cheap! Har!
Bowtie just extended last seasons NL CY-6 (Mikolas) and NL MVP-6 (Goldy) for 9/198mil, 22mil AAV. That’s some pretty good shopping.March 22, 2019 at 4:31 pm #844761982 willieParticipantFree
well I think the deal highly benefits goldshmidt more than it does the cardinals. now if goldy performs as he has for at least 4 of the next 6 years then both benefit. but if he follows normal baseball patterns at his age, his stats will start angling downward. then he mostly benefits unless its just a small decline. its actually the kind of deal the cardinals usually make although its a little more than usual. they tend to give proven guys that are at or slightly past their prime the money as opposed to taking a chance on someone like harper who has huge potential and is younger. I personally would have preferred harper if it was possible but I also like goldy so im glad he got paid and I hope he has some great years for the cardinals. with carpenters and ozunas injury problems, it may just not be enough.March 22, 2019 at 7:27 pm #84486bicyclemikeModeratorPaid - Annual
I like the deal and am glad the club got it done quick. Now it might end up that Arizona got the best of Goldy, and Kelly will blossom into an all star. Maybe Weaver will find his command, and the kid prove to be good down the road.
But this was the right deal based on what we know now, and to commit to Goldy was also the right way to go.March 23, 2019 at 10:03 am #84519gscottarParticipantPaid - Annual
The front office deserves credit for getting this done. They were aggressive. However, I think equal part in this equation was the fact that players are realizing that free agency is no longer the destination point it used to be. There is no guarantee you will get what you think your value is and even if you do you will have to endure months of scrutiny and uncertainty.
Arenado forgoes free agency.
Trout forgoes free agency.
Goldy forgoes free agency.
Sale forgoes free agency.
Verlander is now in negotiations for an extension.
Who will be next?
The owners may be on the verge of accomplishing what was once unthinkable. The end of free agency as we know it. Well played gentlemen.March 24, 2019 at 7:38 am #84550Euro DandyParticipantFree
Goldy is a great fit for the Cards. Sure, it will bite if he declines significantly anytime soon, but there is risk in every direction. He changes things in a big way.March 24, 2019 at 9:47 am #84564Oquendo11ParticipantFree
For those that would have preferred signing the 26 year old Harper over any 30+ player, even one as consistently good as Goldy, would you be happy signing a 31 year old Harper to a $200M contract?
Harper would have cost the Cardinals MORE than $200M more than Goldy costs. Because they would have had to outbid the “Phillies’ Crazy Money”. How much higher “Crazy Money” would the Phillies been willing to spend? No telling what the final cost would have been.
But, more importantly the Cardinals would not have had their team until the middle of Spring Training. I don’t know if it would have been possible to make a high enough offer in December to force Harper (Boris) from waiting out all teams. So the offseason planning would have been lost, even if they “won” Harper, in the end.
The way I see it, the Cardinals got the more consistent, higher floor, better defensive, better character player for much much less risk.
The Phillies got the higher ceiling, bigger name player.
It is very possible both teams will be happy at the end of these contracts.
But, I have much more confidence in the Cardinals being happy than I would be of the Phillies.March 24, 2019 at 10:12 am #84567gscottarParticipantPaid - Annual
This is a new world. It used to be if player got to walk year almost always went to free agency, but that has become more treacherous. Goldschmidt, Sale, Pressly, Verlander, Arenado, Gray, Hicks, Mikolas all extended b4 walk year. Maybe deGrom will have to wait to walk yr? #Mets
— Joel Sherman (@Joelsherman1) March 23, 2019March 24, 2019 at 11:06 am #84569NJ315Participant
At the end of the day it is a matter of preference I am very happy Goldy is signed but all things being equal I rather had Harper. But it is rather a moot point so I am moving on.March 24, 2019 at 6:12 pm #84583bicyclemikeModeratorPaid - Annual
However, I think equal part in this equation was the fact that players are realizing that free agency is no longer the destination point it used to be.
i also think that the money is so good these days, that players are valuing the situation they are in, and not necessarily just trying to get as much as possible. The contracts they are signing are more money than they ever dreamed of earning, so often guys are seeing where they have it good and are staying there.
Harper was an exception, as he was offered $300 million to stay in Washington, but chose to go the free agent route.March 24, 2019 at 10:56 pm #84602
I think you are correct bikemike. Call it “Maslow for baseball players”.March 25, 2019 at 6:20 am #84605
Agreed. Fans usually assume players will chase every last dollar, when that is now clearly not the case, if it ever was. Many other considerations are outside our view, including family preference, taxes, and just plain comfort.March 25, 2019 at 10:37 am #84648mudvilleParticipantPaid - Annual
I have the impression that the majority of players were after the most money they could possibly get, bolstered by an unrelenting effort by Boras to always exceed the previous year’s record contract for what he deemed to be an equivalent player. In an interview by Jim Hayes before a game shortly after he signed, Matt Holliday was asked if he wanted to come to the Cardinals all along. Holliday said he didn’t necessarily want to come here. I’m pretty sure he meant he would have gone to whichever team offered him the most money. And, of course, there was always a team anxious to pay the most money. I’m glad to see that this is all changing.March 25, 2019 at 11:01 am #84651
There is also the pressure put on the top players to test the market to help their union brethren following. This is clearly eroding as there is a huge current trend to avoid free agency. I wonder how Tony Clark will spin this as a negative when so many guys are making their own free choice to take large sums of money to stay put.March 25, 2019 at 12:34 pm #84657
As expected, there is also the usual bonus language and structure in here for Gold Glove awards and All-Star. Interestingly, the bonuses for the extension have been retroactively added to this season, 2019, too. So he'll get an increase there for awards won, per sources.March 25, 2019 at 1:21 pm #84658
Here’s a better list…
$20M signing bonus.
$22M/yr – 2020-2024.
$250K for All Star, Gold Glove
$50K for Silver Slugger
$100K for LCS/MVP
$150K for WS/MVP
$1.5M for MVP ($1M 2nd, 500K 3rd;
$250K 4th-5th; $100K 6th-10th)
Player donates $100K/yr to club charity. Suite on Road. Full No Trade
— Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) March 25, 2019March 25, 2019 at 2:01 pm #84659stlcard25ParticipantPaid - Annual
So if he somehow maxed out all his bonuses, that would be another $11.5 million on the deal ($2.3M per year). Though I doubt anyone would care if he made some extra dough as a 5 time MVP and World Series MVP, which would indicate that the Cards won all those titles.
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