Houston Astros Stealing Signs

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  • #119470
    Avatar1964cards
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    Oquendo, I suspect the Red Sox are following the advice of their legal team for the moment. The report on the 2018 Red Sox activities and MLB disciplinary action will drive the Red Sox’s actions. I have no doubt that Cora will be let go. Not sure how severe his penalty will be. However, I assume it will be much worse than what was handed out to Luhnow or Hinch.

    #119473
    Avataratripleshyofthecycle
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    I think this is funny since Luhnow basically stole the Cardinals system for scouting and rating players. Now Luhnow is finally getting some punishment for trying to play at the edge of right and wrong.

    This right here.

    #119474
    Avatarforsch31
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    jager, I think the loss of 4 top draft picks will severely hurt the Astros for many years. I know that Kyle Tucker and Forrest Whitley still haven’t made too much of an impact on the major league team, yet. However, that is the type of talent that the Astros won’t be able to draft. Whitley was the 16th overall pick in 2016. Of the top 20 prospects in the Astros system per MLB, only 2 were drafted in the first 2 rounds: Whitley (#1) and Korey Lee (#3). Whitley is the only one listed in the top 100 MLB.com prospects. Tucker is no longer listed in the MLB.com rankings.

    Looking at a lot of the ranking systems, the Astros’ farm system is not that highly rated right now. They have graduated most of the highly rated prospects.

    After 2020, Reddick, Brantley, Springer and Peacock are free agents. After 2021, Greinke, Verlander, Joe Smith, Maldonado, McCullers, Correa, Osuna and Devenski are free agents. After 2022, Gurriel and Diaz are free agents. When you also factor in raises to players in arbitration years, they will have trouble staying within a reasonable budget.

    #119475
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Oquendo said:

    forsch I almost always agree with you, but I see no way that Luhnow would not know that what they were doing was absolutely breaking the rules.

    I agree with Oquendo. Both Manfred and Torre provided written direction to all teams. Crane said he told Luhnow to make sure the Astros were compliant.

    #119476
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Forsch said:

    I think this is funny since Luhnow basically stole the Cardinals system for scouting and rating players.

    While this may be kind of true, it glosses over the fact that the Cardinals system was developed by Luhnow and his underlings while with the Cardinals. The question of intellectual property and what is owned by the business vs. what the employees have gained personally is a murky area.

    One thing is clear. DeWitt did not want the Astros investigated for allegedly stealing the Cardinals system. Perhaps much of the reason why is that the only evidence was from Correa’s illegal entry.

    As the judge later asked Correa, “So you broke into your neighbor’s house to see if he was stealing from you?”

    #119477
    Avatarforsch31
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    Oquendo, all I was trying to point out was that I interpreted WHAT HE SAID WAS he didn’t think it was breaking the rules. I also believe he KNEW it was breaking the rules but he was willing to walk the fine line. He was just trying to cover his backside with his statement.

    #119479
    RatsbuddyRatsbuddy
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    Why, Rats? What is your thinking behind it?

    We now have another Black Sox Scandal, 100 years later. Do you think the players that took advantage of this are going to be labeled cheaters? Will the Astros fans still be their fans? Would they be better off moving to another team for the remainder of their career? Maybe they might want to put this scandal behind them and move on. Start over somewhere else?

    r/Esteemed Rat

    #119480
    AvatarPugsleyAddams
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    In a perfect world, the cubbies 2016 squad would have preceded the Astro and Red Sox teams in this mess. And the cubs cheating would have been so egregious that Manfred had no choice but to strip them of their title. Then we’d be looking at what……about a 115 year drought right now. Hey…..has anybody looked into this possibility?

    #119483
    Avataratripleshyofthecycle
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    The question of intellectual property and what is owned by the business vs. what the employees have gained personally is a murky area.

    It’s not murky at all at any company that is competent. This is a basic thing covered in a standard employment contract. That said, I have no idea what the Cardinals employment contract says.

    But, generally speaking, if a company is paying you to do something, the company owns the product of your work.

    Lunhow is a worm who had this coming. I have no idea if he stole anything from the Cardinals. But I will always remember him announcing his “Zero Tolerance Policy” on domestic abuse right after he traded for a woman-beater coming off suspension. And his assistant GM showed how they feel about anyone who dare question their morality on the matter.

    #119499
    AvatarOquendo11
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    Does anybody body think it was a coincidence that the report came out on the day of the College Football Championship game?

    I wonder if the report on the Red Sox will come out on Super Bowl Sunday.

    Guarantee that the general sports talk shows will have something else to talk about soon after.

    #119500
    BeopigBeopig
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    Ahahahahaha…this could not happen to a more deserving team or a more deserving man (Lunhow).

    #119504
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    Can anybody lead me to the home and road records for the Astros in 2017 and 2018 and the Red Sox in 2018. It may be revealing to have that info. I still think Houston was a very good team and can continue to be but there may be some slippage next year when quite a few become free agents.

    #119505
    AvatarCariocaCardinal
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    The logic that because Crane told Luhnow to make sure the team was not breaking the rules means that he must have known that they were breaking the rules as extremely faulty.

    #119507
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    I think it would be difficult for MLB to suspend an owner based on what info they had. Do they even have the power to suspend an owner or force him to sell his team?

    #119508
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    If MLB wanted to bury this story they wouldn’t have released the report mid-day on a Monday. They would have released it in the late afternoon on a Friday.

    #119510
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    BHC I agree. It would be like trying to bury the Titanic with a garden shovel. MLB wanted prime time to show all how tough they can be.

    #119512
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    Dodgers lose two world series to two cheating teams, mmm mmm mmmm.

    #119513
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Even after the MLB directive, Luhnow did not forward it to his people or brief them. It is in the report.

    #119515
    AvatarCardinals27
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    Brian, what is your opinion of Luhnow? I am thinking you have spoken with him a time or 3. Didn’t he have a rift with Walt Jocketty, or am I thinking of someone else?

    #119516
    AvatarCardinals27
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    Is there evidence of Red Sox cheating also? Or, will Cora only be involved?

    #119517
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    #119522
    AvatarPugsleyAddams
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    Or, will Cora only be involved?

    Cora is going to pay a huge price
    …..maybe even more than what the Houston *Asterisks got levied with yesterday. If I’m Manfred, I’m making Cora manage the Mets for at least the next 3 years…..that’ll get him!

    #119524
    AvatarCariocaCardinal
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    Even after the MLB directive, Luhnow did not forward it to his people or brief them. It is in the report.

    So does that show that Luhnow knew they were cheating, he was lazy or lax with regard to this subject, or he was overconfident they weren’t cheating? In any case it warrents punishment but if that is all probably less than he revieved in my opinion.

    I doubt the players and coaches didn’t know of the mlb edict regardless. Don’t they watch SportsCenter?

    #119528
    Avatargscottar
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    jj-cf-stl wrote:

    Dodgers lose two world series to two cheating teams, mmm mmm mmmm.

    No doubt. If I am the Dodgers I am more than PO’d.

    #119529
    Avatargscottar
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    atripleshyofthecycle wrote:

    Lunhow is a worm who had this coming.

    I think this statement pretty much summarizes the entire thread.

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