Houston Astros Stealing Signs

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  • #114431
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    In an interview Beltran said that there was no cheating. What else could he say now that he is a very new MLB manager.

    #114445
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    Yeah, I know Ny. I just find it hilarious about Beltran.

    So, does anyone have any second thoughts about Jeff Albert now? He came to the Cardinals because they felt he’d help with hitting but its intriguing he was with the Astros in the midst of their cheating.

    #114447
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    In the last few days, it has been a sport for some on social media to smear or at least cast aspersions on Albert. They make him guilty by association, since he worked for the same organization, without even knowing what jobs he had. This is the world we live in, where anonymous idiots disparage people’s careers with nothing but a highly circumstantial connection.

    Albert worked for them as a hitting coach, so he must be dirty, too! Guilty until proven innocent.

    In the 2017 season, the one in which the electronic cheating has been pretty much proven, Albert was in his fourth season as their minor league hitting coordinator. Does anyone suppose the Astros bothered with spy cameras, monitors and banging trash cans down in Round Rock or Tri-City?

    In 2018, his last season with the Astros, Albert was the MLB assistant hitting coach. What cheating they were doing that season and how Albert might have been involved is unknown.

    So, to answer the question, no, I do not have any second thoughts about Albert because of the Astros cheating – at least until there is any evidence of his participation, of which there is none currently.

    Any second thoughts I will have about Albert will be based on whether or not the Cardinals offense improves in 2020. If many hitters continue to underachieve compared to their career norms, Albert will have to answer, after being pretty much protected his first year.

    (BHC, I am really glad you asked, so I could get this off my chest. I don’t engage these people on Twitter, as that is hopeless.)

    #114452
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    I’m with you, Brian. Hopefully you know that my comment in this thread was tongue in cheek. It seems pretty unlikely that Albert had a hand in anything or brought that culture over here.

    #114456
    AvatarOnyxgem
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    One thing i will say he may not have known it was going on but he sure the heck benefited from it making him look like a lot better hitting coach than he really seems to be now!

    #114457
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Of course. Not directed at anyone here.

    #114458
    Avatargscottar
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    I don’t think Albert is going to be implicated in anything. The people that should worry are Lunhow, Hinch, Cora, and Beltran.

    #114459
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Onyx, please explain how cheating at the MLB level made a minor league hitting coordinator look better? To even suggest that shows that you must think that great young hitters developed in their system like Bregman and Alvarez are not as good as they appear to be. I call BS on that.

    #114460
    AvatarOnyxgem
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    In 2018, his last season with the Astros, Albert was the MLB assistant hitting coach.

    If they were cheating in 2017 they were cheating in 2018

    #114462
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Guilt by association. String him up. Ask questions later! Internet justice is served!

    #114465
    Avatargscottar
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    Bob Nightengale, USA Today: “Major League Baseball general managers slowly trickled out through the resort courtyard late Thursday morning to catch rides to the airport, talking and laughing with one another, giving their best Thanksgiving wishes, and promising to catch up on the phone. One GM stood off to the side, obscured by the tall bushes toward the check-in desk, not talking to a soul. Jeff Luhnow, general manager of the Houston Astros, was the man everyone was talking about at these annual general manager meetings, but for all of the wrong reasons. There may be 30 different agendas at these meetings, but this time virtually all were united on one front. They want to see the Astros go down. And go down hard. They want the Astros to pay a fortune in penalties, being fined a record amount of money, forfeiting draft picks, international signing bonuses, and two even told USA TODAY Sports they wish MLB would force them to vacate the 2017 World Series title.”

    #114466
    Avatargscottar
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    Michael Rosenberg, SI.com: “The Astros are a lot like the Patriots: They win a ton, they have unconventional methods, they are secret about those methods, and there is a lingering suspicion that they like to dress up as valet-parking attendants and steal cars. And so, much as rival NFL teams loved the Spygate scandal, there are surely a lot of baseball executives cackling and rubbing their hands together right now. But there are also a few key differences here. One is that the sports are quite different. Football teams are always terrified about somebody watching their practices. Baseball players do a lot of their practicing in full view of the public. To this day, many members of the 2001 St. Louis Rams believe, but cannot prove, that the Patriots filmed their walkthrough before the Super Bowl. It’s hard to even find a comparable possible allegation in baseball, unless somebody says the Astros videotaped the meetings when they go over opposing hitters or something. The other big difference: The Patriots were widely seen as the lone team breaking this rule, and they were warned about it. A year before Spygate broke, NFL senior vice president for football operations issued a memo reminding teams that ‘videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent’s offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited.’ The Pats kept doing it, and they were perceived as outliers. The Astros may be perceived as the worst offenders. They might even be the worst offenders. But they are definitely not the only offenders. The 2017 Red Sox were fined for using Apple watches to steal signs. The technology was different, but this was the same offense the Astros committed. If the Astros are only proven to have done it in 2017, then that means they stopped before the league started issuing firm warnings about it. But that is an enormous if.”

    #114492
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Uh oh. On Twitter, Yu Darvish says he noticed Christian Yelich’s eyes moving when he was ready to pitch, so he stepped off the rubber. He didn’t directly accuse Yelich of anything, but the former MVP did not like it.

    (As background, some have believed that Darvish had been tipping pitches or something was up with his relatively poor recent results. Apparently some people have been reviewing video of him pitching. He was asked a question and Yelich took exception to the response.)

    #114595
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Now there is a paper trail. The only downside is that the people involved have not yet been named.

    #114604
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    #114635
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    #114656
    Avatargscottar
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    #114666
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    Not sure who’s been sitting at the table in the hallway to the Astros dugout chomping down on a bunch of sunflower seeds and peanuts, but that is a lot of debris. Oh…and look! A conveniently placed trashcan.

    #114669
    AvatarWooster
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    Well got to admit the video us actually pretty convincing. Had to put my earphones on to hear it. Using a camera feed to enable the process is crossing the line for me unless you want to avail this to all the teams. Very similar to my argument about replacing the umpire with the pitch locator. Think I remember playing baseball as a kid not needing an electrical outlet to get set up. Cheating is still cheating if you have to hide it to get away with it.

    #114670
    AvatarWooster
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    Oh yeah on method it sounds like they’re banging a trash can, on another a bat rack

    #114671
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    Had to put my earphones on to hear it.

    Some of the games the audio really picks up the banging and its very clear. However, there are some that you can’t really hear unless using headphones.

    #114672
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    Lol this guy is single handily shining light about the Astros cheating. I’m not sure how he got the picture on the left, but that is definitely damning. Not sure what game this is from but I’ve seen comments that its from Game 3. That would be the game they destroyed Yu Darvish.

    #114701
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    The previously-unnamed Astros executive who sent the leaked email asking scouts to use cameras to steal signs has been identified as Kevin Goldstein. The former BP and BA employee was Director of Pro Scouting and is now a special assistant to Jeff Luhnow.

    https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28098216/astros-exec-suggested-using-cameras-spy-17-sources-say

    #114721
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    I don’t have a subscription to BP but here’s something for anyone who does:

    Moonshot: The Astros’ Sign-Stealing Left A Fingerprint In The Audio Data

    #114726
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    The cheating keeps evolving. Now there is talk about the Astros using electronic buzzers. From the NY Daily Post: “I have had scouts and executives talk to me about a variety of methods they think have been or could be employed, such as a realistic-looking electronic bandage placed on a player’s body that buzzes in real time to signal what is coming — one buzz for a fastball, for example — if the surveillance determines what type of pitching is coming.”

    https://nypost.com/2019/11/18/why-rob-manfred-must-make-a-harsh-example-of-illegal-sign-stealers/

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