Houston Astros Stealing Signs

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  • #114180
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    During the postseason there was a lot of accusations about the Astros stealing signs with the Yankees accusing the Astros of whistling in the dugout. The Astros apparantly have been doing this for a while and a damning report with video evidence supports at least one accusation of the Astros using technology to steal signs. They positioned a camera in centerfield that would feed a to a video screen near the Astros dugout and the players would bang on objects to notify the Astros hitter that the pitcher was throwing a breaking/off speed pitch. The video is the most damning evidence.

    https://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/articles/video_appears_to_show_astros_stealing_signs_against_danny_farquhar/s1_127_30520562

    #114185
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    Here’s a better breakdown of the sign stealing. Be warned however there is some strong language on the commentary:

    #114217
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    As punishment, MLB will take picks from the Cardinals and give them to the teams affected by the Astros’ actions.

    #114276
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    #114285
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    I don’t understand how the Cards FO knew the Astros stole from them and didn’t do anything about it.

    So people have been going back and re-watching Astros home games to see if there was any more banging on offspeed pitches and whew boy…there is a lot of evidence out there. The banging only happens on offspeed pitches is what’s damning.

    #114287
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    BHC, my read is what I said in the article. The intellectual property was just not that important to the Cardinals. If it had been, they would have pursued it, as would any responsible business owner.

    So, Correa then made a much bigger deal out of something that wasn’t.

    #114291
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    So are you saying that the Cardinals are not responsible business owners? Pardon me if I am reading it wrong but that seems to be the way it read. Either that or the intellectual property was of no use.

    #114295
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    The latter. Not of no use, but of low enough significance they didn’t care to pursue it.

    #114297
    AvatarCariocaCardinal
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    Or more likely, they didn’t want to admit to Correa’s crime and the extent that the FO new what he was doing.

    #114299
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    That is not more likely to me…what info do you have to suggest that? MLB didn’t think that the FO was involved.

    #114300
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Well, they might have thought about protecting him from his own stupidity. But no one from the front office was accused of knowing what he was doing – at least after the initial intrusions. This was all left vague. But all the later stuff, the counts he was charged on and accepted, he did on his own, without others knowing, is the explanation.

    #114301
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    If MLB had thought the FO was involved they would have gone after the Cardinals hard. They didn’t think so.

    #114302
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Here is the most logical sequence of events, IMO.

    1) Correa suspects intellectual property was taken.
    2) Correa enters Houston’s systems and finds evidence.
    3) Correa tells Cardinals “colleagues” what he suspects.
    4) Cardinals “colleagues” tell him to lay off and they assume it is over.
    5) Correa continues on his own.

    These “colleagues” were never named in the court proceedings and when Correa was under oath, the judge did not ask him to name them.

    #114303
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    An alternate scenario:

    1) Same
    2) Same
    3) Same
    4) Cardinals ask MLB to investigate Houston.
    5) MLB asks how the Cardinals got their evidence.
    6) Correa is exposed for illegal entry from the very start.
    7) Maybe the Astros are found guilty, and maybe not, but Correa clearly was guilty.
    8) MLB suggests the Cardinals reconsider.

    As the judge asked Correa in court (paraphrased) when he tried to defend his actions as protecting the Cardinals: “So when you suspected your neighbor of stealing, you broke into his house to try to find out?”

    P.S. I am not suggesting this scenario is real, because DeWitt and Mo said they were unaware until the FBI showed up.

    #114307
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    If it was me, I would have considered the Astros stealing intellectual property as pretty substantial. They basically stole the Cardinals algorithms to create a similar database.

    #114312
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    In some countries if you do something really stupid, like being careless with your computer password, they think you deserve whatever happens to you. I’m not defending what Correa did. I’m saying Houston has some responsibility for not taking care of their own business when they should have. Anyone who has a computer knows you have to do things to protect your privacy. Houston failed to do that and then got rewarded for it by being given two of the Cardinals’ draft picks. Correa got started by wanting to right a wrong, then didn’t stop when he should have, and ultimately received a tough punishment for his mistake.

    #114322
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    My intent is to remind readers that the Cardinals knew of Correa’s intellectual property concerns and made the decision not to ask for an investigation of the Astros.

    Has it been determined who the “CARDINALS” are? Those CARDINALS who are unnamed must have been guilty too and were protected. Instead, their team lost the draft picks. Only it was our team that suffered the loss that continues right up to the present. The FO seemed to be irresponsible, at least in some part. Hmmmm…. and now the extensions. Just a thought.

    ps… I read an article about Correa in SI about a year ago. He got a lot of sympathy there. Poor little Chris… he had to do hard time.

    #114332
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    mud, all I can offer is that if you ever become a victim of identity theft, you will develop an appreciation for the laws that protect our electronic information.

    Ny, my key points in response to your post is that no one was alleged to have known about Correa’s actions beyond his initial discovery and those later actions are what caused him to go to prison. Those actions occurred as he was a Cardinals executive and the team directly benefited from them, as determined by the Court.

    I wrote an article after the SI story came out last year, touching on some of those unanswered questions.

    Chris Correa (Doesn’t) Come Completely Clean on Crimes

    #114335
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    A lot of smoke has circled the Astros FO the last couple of years.

    1. Allegedly theft of Cardinal intellectual property, even if minor.
    2. Mistreatment of a female reporter before finally retreating to offer some kind of lame apology.
    3. Potentially stealing of signs over who knows how long of time.

    They look worse each and every day. I am glad Lunhow is gone from the Cardinals. I will take Mo over that slime ball any day of the week.

    #114336
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    So Brian, if I understand correctly, you think Correas initial felony was known at the highest levels of the Cards organization? Yet they did nothing that we know of to even punish Correa?

    #114341
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    As for this issue. Seems pretty damning stuff.

    Astros are about to get punished IMO. This isnt another team calling them out or THINKING something is wrong, it’s a player that was there and participated it seems (Fiers).

    I think for an ingame, and potentially season altering scheme, that totally questions the integrity of the game and fairness of the game as seen by the fans….that the punishment HAS to be pretty severe.

    Way harsher than the Cardinals punishment. The Cardinals punishment was what? basically stealing data to analyze players value?

    That is bad, but this is straight cheating DURING the game and done in an organized way. knowingly by many people involved from players to, coaches nad admin or support staff.

    Postseason ban, might be in order IMO. not to mention firings and draft pick and international money penalties

    I mean how can ANY team going into Houston not throw up the big “P” before the game starts to indicate they are playing under protest?

    How can we trust any outcome if organized cheating is allowed to be unpunished in such a severe way that the penalty guarantees no one will try it again.

    A slap on the wrist is not going to do for this at all.

    The Black Sox were banned for taking bribes to throw a game, this may not be to that level…but it is a lot closer to that level than people are reporting.

    #114344
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    I doubt we see a playoff ban, but I could very easily see the Astros paying a heavy fine and losing draft picks and international money. Maybe no 1st or 2nd rounder for as many years as we have documented that they’ve been cheating this way and heavily reduced overseas spending for the same time? So that would be, say, 6 draft picks lost, half (or less) international money and a fine that I’m not sure of but would probably be in the $10-20M range.

    #114348
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    CC, I did not say “at the highest levels of the Cards organization”. All we know from testimony is that he told “colleagues” of his findings.

    #114349
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    This could get really ugly with key people reportedly involved now leading other teams. MLB is going to have an even harder time sweeping this mess under the rug…

    Three major-league managers are connected to Astros’ sign stealing

    Major League Baseball’s investigation into the Astros and sign stealing is virtually certain to include interviews with three current managers — the Astros’ AJ Hinch, the Red Sox’s Alex Cora and the Mets’ Carlos Beltrán.

    Hinch was the Astros’ manager in 2017, and sources said both Cora and Beltrán played a key role in devising the sign-stealing system the team used that season. The Astros stole signs electronically, according to pitcher Mike Fiers and three other sources inside the organization at the time, violating major league rules. The Athletic reported the news of the Astros’ rule-breaking on Tuesday.

    #114355
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    Didn’t Jeff Albert come from Houston?? 😬🧐

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