2022 CBA negotiations

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  • #179337
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    gscott, I get Jones’ frustration, but it seems like apples and oranges. Owners do what is good for them, while employees do what their team owners tell them to do. You can bet Sternberg isn’t talking without Manfred’s approval. We will have to see what his remarks are, but it wouldn’t surprise me if he presents the ownership talking points for the CBA negotiations.

    #179342
    Cardinals27
    Participant

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    The longer this stalemate goes on the more it disgusts me. Especially since I am getting emails from the Cardinals about purchasing tickets and apparel. I have no intention of buying anything, until they are, at least close to a new agreement.
    It is getting very close to when pitchers and catchers report. I fear that we are not far from cancellation of early spring training games.

    #179343
    gscottar
    Participant

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    Apparently Sternberg’s press conference really had nothing to do with the CBA. It was to complain that MLB had vetoed his split city plan with Montreal. Manfred endorsed this concept at one point. I am glad to see that he finally came to his senses.

    #179344
    so_cal_cards_fan
    Participant

    Free

    I sense the players might be for it, but the owners may not. What do you see as the pros and cons for each of the two sides and it is balanced enough to fly?

    I’m not sure if it’s balanced enough. A 95% match by the owners would be a slam-dunk for them. You rarely see short contracts for good young players. Players might insist on 100%, which is quite a decent compromise on five year free agency.

    Pros for players:
    Get a good salary without having to trust the arbiter.
    Get an early look at their potential market value. Could allow them to sign an extension without the traditional ‘must test free agency market first’.
    Win something significant from the owners.

    Pros for owners.
    Keep six years of control, but at the cost of paying your player what they are worth in their prime.

    Negotiating for multi/year offers would be dicey I imagine.

    #179345
    gscottar
    Participant

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    Doesn’t the NBA have a system somewhat similar to this idea? Under their system a team with a “restricted free agent” may keep the player at a lower cost than a new team but an “unrestricted free agent” is open to all teams at market value.

    #179355
    so_cal_cards_fan
    Participant

    Free

    I suspect you are right, but I haven’t followed the NBA closely since 1980: Lenny Wilkins and Downtown Freddie Brown.

    #179366
    Nathan Leopold Jr.
    Participant

    Free

    The players need to tell the owners to go from 6 years to 5 or don’t call us and we are willing to strike the season.

    #179367
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    nate, I don’t know if that is the hill the players want to die on, but I kinda like the simplicity of selecting one issue and not giving in.

    #179389
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    #179460
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    #179472
    mudville
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    It’s better than no movement, no news. You could even call it progress.

    #179474
    stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Even though it’s not the proposal I’d prefer as a fan, I can’t really understand why they haven’t gone to a system like the NFL yet. All revenue is shared and the player/team cut is negotiated. Salary cap and floor alike that are close to each other. Again, it’s not my preference, but it makes the most sense for almost everyone. Or do the few “big dog” owners really have that much sway?

    #179477
    ZTR
    Participant

    Free

    I feel the worst for the young crop of player that lost a year to Covid and now this.

    Quite a few may never be able to overcome not being able to play and develop.

    Egos get involved, lines are drawn, and it becomes too personal for these egos who just need to ‘win’ so they can add that feather to their cap.

    No one is forcing any of the players to choose baseball as their career. I’d like to see more done for the younger players at ALL levels including MLB.

    I understand the investment teams make in developing young talent and the need to have a certain time period to ‘control the asset’.

    I understand the theory behind the draft order to give ‘bad’ teams a chance at getting the apparently better young players – BUT – I’d rather see the player acquisition system be more like college recruiting WITH a hard money cap (established by a mutually agreed upon formula based on the prior year’s net revenue) and I think there are already roster number limits in place.

    Revenue sharing between all franchises of some kind should be a thing if it isn’t already.

    Two salary caps (MLB and MiLB) should be hard – not soft with financial penalties for exceeding them – ultra rich owners will simply sneer at those.

    #179479
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    I remain discouraged. We are 56 days into the lockout and this seems the first time they are getting down to work.

    They knew for months and years this was coming. They didn’t need 55 more days to get their positions together. Now, we are about a week from spring training being impacted with no legitimate excuse for the delay.

    My wish is that the government could set a deadline at which point the two sides would be forced into independent arbitration. But the reality is that ownership would never agree to this. Never. They have too much at stake to take the risk.

    So we are forced to wait. The impact of the fan on this process is about the same as the minor leaguers. Zero.

    #179483
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    MLB reportedly willing to cancel regular season games if needed.

    CBS mouths The Athletic’s reporting in a free article.

    #179485
    stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    My wish is that the government could set a deadline at which point the two sides would be forced into independent arbitration. But the reality is that ownership would never agree to this. Never. They have too much at stake to take the risk.

    I’m with you here. This is entertainment, not something life or death. Of course, perhaps that’s the argument that could be made in favor of keeping the government out of the negotiation as well, but generally there are no losers in this situation except for the fans (and possibly the workers at the stadiums, as I’m not sure how they are paid). Both owners and players have obscene amounts of money at stake, and there’s no real reason they should be bickering to the point that it costs us all regular season games.

    #179486
    PugsleyAddams
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t get why everyone is getting their feathers ruffled over this. At the risk of coming across cocky, please read my lips….”There will be no regular season games cancelled this year”. Not going to happen. A few ST games could be in jeopardy, but that’s the extent of it. Rest easy folks.

    #179653
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    #179662
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Not an encouraging meeting today.

    #179674
    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

    Paid - Monthly

    Not sure I agree that this is bad news. Heated meeting shows me they are serious about resolving things

    #179675
    stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Of interest to Cards fans in this discussion…so many of the proposals are tied to WAR, and specifically fWAR. One thing we know is that fWAR punishes ground ball pitchers, like many that the Cards go after. Relative to the league, teams like the Cards and Pirates, who are two seamer lovers, may save some money.

    #179684
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Could be posturing but I don’t interpret the reports being positive.

    #179689
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    The only difference between 10 and 100 is a measly zero! 😉

    #179690
    LoganAlpha30X7
    Participant

    Free

    Not sure that nothing has ever meant so much something…

    #179697
    Cardinal in France
    Participant

    Free

    Thank goodness we wasted all this time in lockout so we could spend the remaining hours before ST dealing with these monumental issues. Like a bunch of 12-year-olds in a sandlot arguing over which side has to take Fat Albert.

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