2022 CBA negotiations

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  • #178677
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    #178678
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    CIF,

    The theory is that it is supposed to create a sense of urgency but I think we all know that the only thing that is going to move the needle is the threat of missing actual games and we are still a couple of months of away before that happens, which is why I would be surprised to see a deal before March and may be close to April.

    #178687
    Ratsbuddy
    Participant

    Free
    #178719
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    According to reports, Ken Rosenthal was let go by MLB Network because he had been critical of Manfred’s handling of labor matters. But, they are keeping Jon Heyman on…

    It serves as yet another reminder that if you get your news from the MLB-owned entities (including TV and web), you should expect a whitewashed version of the facts.

    #178722
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I am seeing seen tons of blowback on this firing on social media. Manfred’s popularity rating, as if he cares, has to be close to zero. I know he only cares about what the owners think about him but I get the feeling that a lot of people who follow and report on MLB regularly do not have a good impression of the current commissioner.

    #178867
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    #178897
    PugsleyAddams
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Wow. Tell me Kennesaw Mountain Landis and Ted Simmons(in their 60’s) could not pass for identical twins. Simba could definitely play Judge Landis in a Hollywood film, on looks alone. I’d be interested to see a pic of Kennesaw in his 20’s, to see if they bore a similar resemblance at an earlier age. From the pic above, Judge Landis even had the same throwing style as Ted. Very interesting.

    #178947
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    #178948
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    #178967
    stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Wow. Tell me Kennesaw Mountain Landis and Ted Simmons(in their 60’s) could not pass for identical twins. Simba could definitely play Judge Landis in a Hollywood film, on looks alone. I’d be interested to see a pic of Kennesaw in his 20’s, to see if they bore a similar resemblance at an earlier age. From the pic above, Judge Landis even had the same throwing style as Ted. Very interesting

    I see some Dustin Hoffman there in the photo.

    #178984
    SoonerinNC
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    We will not see serious negotiating until just before the deadline. Works that way in all labor negotiations.

    I could be wrong but I have felt that the majority of the participants on this site generally are in favor of the players.

    I think it interesting that many laud the players for using the economic system for getting a huge contract but on the other hand many hammer the same system when a brilliant CEO of a company that provides great products and many good paying jobs earns over a million dollars a year.

    I am generally pro business but in this case I don’t have a favorite. Only the fans have anything to lose in these negotiations. Any significant increase in player cost will just be reflected in ticket, concessions and other game costs. Further, earlier free agency will benefit the big money teams a little more. Not good for the Cardinals but they don’t usually dabble much in huge contract negotiations.

    I don’t think either side can afford an extended strike but somethimes these things really get out of hand.

    If we don’t have a major league season I will enjoy lots of minor league games.

    #178987
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I don’t consider myself pro owner or pro player. Frankly, I have never been impressed with either Manfred or Clark. Neither one is much of a leader in my opinion.

    Most mlb writers seem to think that the owners “won” the last CBA deal therefore the players are expected to dig their heels in to rectify it this time. I don’t have a problem with that but my suggestion would be to try to win back a few pieces at a time instead of the whole enchilada. Neither side is going to get everything they want. The players are not going to be able to change arbitration, free agency, and the CBT all at the same time; nor should they. They need to determine their priorities.

    #179019
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    #179027
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    #179028
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Interesting how Passan senses spring training being on schedule is in jeopardy, while Heyman sees time remaining. Which view do you have?

    #179031
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    #179032
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I think Spring Training is definitely in jeopardy because there isn’t much money involved. Spring Training is already too long so missing a couple of weeks of it won’t be a major setback. The real deadline is March 31 because that is when owners and players will start losing real money. I would think a deal would need to be done by the first or second week of March to avoid missing regular season games.

    #179033
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    #179034
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    #179035
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    #179183
    bicyclemike
    Moderator

    Paid - Annual

    I am pro labor mostly due to my history in the corporate world where the primary goal of the business is to increase value, which enriches the executives. Labor
    compensation is rarely included in the increase of company value. My experience has been that stock options stop around the Vice President level.

    Thus I tend to side more on the players side. But mlb is unlike most “regular” businesses in that the labor is highly specialized. And that results in a very limited supply.

    When you step back and think about, there are no losers in mlb negotiations among the participants. It’s only the paying customer that loses if a work stoppage results.

    The goal for each side has to be that compromise is the most important thing, not winning the argument. You are both going to come away with riches. But if you push it too far, you will shrink the size of the pot. So as Canned Heat said, “Come on, come on let’s work together.”

    #179206
    Cardinal in France
    Participant

    Free

    At the end of the day, nobody will lose in these negotiations. It’s merely a question of how much more money will be squeezed out of the paying customers.

    #179332
    so_cal_cards_fan
    Participant

    Free

    Below are my thoughts for a potential way to finesse the stalemate over the 5/6 year free agency debate. The intent is to give players more assurance that their year six salary will be very close to market level, while allowing their current team to keep complete control for year six.

    1) entering the last year of arbitration (after year five) each side submits a level for arbitration, just as before.

    2) Current team can accept the player’s arbitration salary offer with xxx hours of exchange of numbers, winning the player’s services, before he/she is allow to talk with other teams, ending this process (keep in mind that the player can make his/her submitted arbitration salary as high as he/she wants eg $50m, but if it is set too high, and the player never gets a competitive offer to present from another team during this period, then the team will likely win the arbitration), or

    3) in the period between exchanging numbers and two days before the arbitration meeting, player and agent are now allowed to talk with other teams, and receive ‘simple’ one* year offers from any/every team.
    a) * (to be negotiated for multi-year offers as well)
    b) offers must be plain vanilla, no options, puts, calls, party suites, trade restrictions, etc)
    c) player/agent looks through the offers and can present just one of them to his/her current team, up to two days before arbitration, all other offers being nullified, and then
    d) current team has the option to match the presented offer at 90% (to be negotiated eg 95/100%) and keep the player for his/her last year before free agency.
    f) if team doesn’t match the players presented offer (at 90/95/100%), and if team didn’t accept the players exchanged number, then at the end of the last day before arbitration meeting, player at his/her option can accept the offer from the other team (but not any other offers that were presented to the player but not seen by current team).
    g) if the player chooses not to accept the offer, the current team and player can have last-minute negotiation to settle, or the arbitration meeting takes place as usual. Arbitrators are required to give some weight to the offer the player submitted, but the player is free to not submit any offer.

    The purpose is to ensure that the player obtains a competitive salary for year six, determined by market forces, (less a slight haircut because the home team still controls because they can match). There is still potential for illegal collusion, but there is also a motivation for other teams to ‘stick it to the current team’ forcing them to spend top dollar for their year-six players.

    This would be really fun to watch.

    #179334
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    #179336
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    so cal, that is a well thought out proposal. I sense the players might be for it, but the owners may not. What do you see as the pros and cons for each of the two sides and it is balanced enough to fly?

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