Home › The Cardinal Nation Forums › Open Forum › 2022 CBA negotiations
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January 3, 2022 at 8:22 am #178677
The Cardinal Nation’s series highlighting the history of labor struggles in MLB continues with the rise of a 2nd major league and failed attempts by players to unionize. Author Marliyn Green is a retired attorney with background in employment law. (free) https://t.co/2vaxTv5fBq pic.twitter.com/3bTXJRLp7f
— Brian Walton (@B_Walton) January 3, 2022
January 3, 2022 at 8:24 am #178678CIF,
The theory is that it is supposed to create a sense of urgency but I think we all know that the only thing that is going to move the needle is the threat of missing actual games and we are still a couple of months of away before that happens, which is why I would be surprised to see a deal before March and may be close to April.
January 3, 2022 at 2:42 pm #178687Ran across this article so I thought I would post the link.
January 4, 2022 at 7:23 am #178719According to reports, Ken Rosenthal was let go by MLB Network because he had been critical of Manfred’s handling of labor matters. But, they are keeping Jon Heyman on…
It serves as yet another reminder that if you get your news from the MLB-owned entities (including TV and web), you should expect a whitewashed version of the facts.
Can confirm MLB Network has decided not to bring me back. I’m grateful for the more than 12 years I spent there, and my enduring friendships with on-air personalities, producers and staff. I always strove to maintain my journalistic integrity, and my work reflects that. 1/2
— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) January 4, 2022
Nothing else is changing for me professionally. I am proud to remain part of the great teams at The Athletic and Fox Sports. 2/2
— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) January 4, 2022
January 4, 2022 at 9:06 am #178722I am seeing seen tons of blowback on this firing on social media. Manfred’s popularity rating, as if he cares, has to be close to zero. I know he only cares about what the owners think about him but I get the feeling that a lot of people who follow and report on MLB regularly do not have a good impression of the current commissioner.
January 9, 2022 at 8:15 am #178867The Cardinal Nation’s series highlighting the history of labor struggles in MLB continues with attempts to challenge baseball’s antitrust status in the early 1900’s. Author Marilyn Green is a retired attorney with background in employment law. (free) https://t.co/i3eB0AgE92 pic.twitter.com/mk1WRmFl9R
— Brian Walton (@B_Walton) January 9, 2022
January 9, 2022 at 9:55 pm #178897Wow. Tell me Kennesaw Mountain Landis and Ted Simmons(in their 60’s) could not pass for identical twins. Simba could definitely play Judge Landis in a Hollywood film, on looks alone. I’d be interested to see a pic of Kennesaw in his 20’s, to see if they bore a similar resemblance at an earlier age. From the pic above, Judge Landis even had the same throwing style as Ted. Very interesting.
January 11, 2022 at 12:19 pm #178947Major League Baseball and the MLB Players Association plan to hold a bargaining session Thursday, sources tell ESPN. MLB is expected to make a core-economics proposal at the session, which would be the first between the sides since the league locked out the players on Dec. 2.
— Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) January 11, 2022
January 11, 2022 at 12:19 pm #178948Major League Baseball and the MLB Players Association plan to hold a bargaining session Thursday, sources tell ESPN. MLB is expected to make a core-economics proposal at the session, which would be the first between the sides since the league locked out the players on Dec. 2.
— Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) January 11, 2022
January 11, 2022 at 1:18 pm #178967Wow. Tell me Kennesaw Mountain Landis and Ted Simmons(in their 60’s) could not pass for identical twins. Simba could definitely play Judge Landis in a Hollywood film, on looks alone. I’d be interested to see a pic of Kennesaw in his 20’s, to see if they bore a similar resemblance at an earlier age. From the pic above, Judge Landis even had the same throwing style as Ted. Very interesting
I see some Dustin Hoffman there in the photo.
January 12, 2022 at 8:07 am #178984We will not see serious negotiating until just before the deadline. Works that way in all labor negotiations.
I could be wrong but I have felt that the majority of the participants on this site generally are in favor of the players.
I think it interesting that many laud the players for using the economic system for getting a huge contract but on the other hand many hammer the same system when a brilliant CEO of a company that provides great products and many good paying jobs earns over a million dollars a year.
I am generally pro business but in this case I don’t have a favorite. Only the fans have anything to lose in these negotiations. Any significant increase in player cost will just be reflected in ticket, concessions and other game costs. Further, earlier free agency will benefit the big money teams a little more. Not good for the Cardinals but they don’t usually dabble much in huge contract negotiations.
I don’t think either side can afford an extended strike but somethimes these things really get out of hand.
If we don’t have a major league season I will enjoy lots of minor league games.
January 12, 2022 at 9:33 am #178987I don’t consider myself pro owner or pro player. Frankly, I have never been impressed with either Manfred or Clark. Neither one is much of a leader in my opinion.
Most mlb writers seem to think that the owners “won” the last CBA deal therefore the players are expected to dig their heels in to rectify it this time. I don’t have a problem with that but my suggestion would be to try to win back a few pieces at a time instead of the whole enchilada. Neither side is going to get everything they want. The players are not going to be able to change arbitration, free agency, and the CBT all at the same time; nor should they. They need to determine their priorities.
January 13, 2022 at 9:36 am #179019The Cardinal Nation’s series highlighting the history of labor struggles in MLB continues with another attempt at player unionization, undertaken just after World War II. Author Marilyn Green is a retired attorney with background in employment law. (free) https://t.co/x8f5Ogvoee pic.twitter.com/mnyCUNKdQk
— Brian Walton (@B_Walton) January 13, 2022
January 13, 2022 at 1:53 pm #179027MLB raised pay for younger players (higher minimum salary and more money for Super 2s) in their proposal. Players union saw overall offer as “disappointing.” No word about a counter yet. Long way to go (but fortunately there’s still time)
— Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) January 13, 2022
January 13, 2022 at 1:58 pm #179028Interesting how Passan senses spring training being on schedule is in jeopardy, while Heyman sees time remaining. Which view do you have?
Baseball labor update: There is no deal. There never was going to be one today. MLB made a proposal. The reaction among the players was not positive. Few on either side expected it to be. The question is how soon the MLBPA counters. Spring training starting on time is in peril.
— Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) January 13, 2022
January 13, 2022 at 2:24 pm #179031Plenty more coming in a story at ESPN but the broad strokes of MLB's proposal, per sources:
– Funnel additional money to all players with 2+ years service
– Award draft picks to teams that don't manipulate service of successful top prospects
– Tweaks to proposed draft lottery— Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) January 13, 2022
January 13, 2022 at 2:38 pm #179032I think Spring Training is definitely in jeopardy because there isn’t much money involved. Spring Training is already too long so missing a couple of weeks of it won’t be a major setback. The real deadline is March 31 because that is when owners and players will start losing real money. I would think a deal would need to be done by the first or second week of March to avoid missing regular season games.
January 13, 2022 at 2:40 pm #179033There is a path on this issue. Currently 22% of MLST 2 players enter salary arbitration. Fine. Don’t ask for all. Players could seek a much higher percentage. Management can say they won the war and players can say they won the battle. https://t.co/E2wh9EenLS
— Maury Brown (@BizballMaury) January 13, 2022
January 13, 2022 at 2:46 pm #179034Also heard MLB owners offered a potential solution to service time manipulation in their proposal:
•if a highly-ranked prospect (within top 150 on prospect lists) plays a full year and finishes top five for a major award like MVP, Cy, RoY his team would get a bonus draft pick— Ben Nicholson-Smith (@bnicholsonsmith) January 13, 2022
January 13, 2022 at 2:47 pm #179035Unsurprisingly, it also sounds as if MLB would like to kill super-two status without proving any other path to earlier free agency.
— Susan Slusser (@susanslusser) January 13, 2022
January 16, 2022 at 4:14 pm #179183I am pro labor mostly due to my history in the corporate world where the primary goal of the business is to increase value, which enriches the executives. Labor
compensation is rarely included in the increase of company value. My experience has been that stock options stop around the Vice President level.Thus I tend to side more on the players side. But mlb is unlike most “regular” businesses in that the labor is highly specialized. And that results in a very limited supply.
When you step back and think about, there are no losers in mlb negotiations among the participants. It’s only the paying customer that loses if a work stoppage results.
The goal for each side has to be that compromise is the most important thing, not winning the argument. You are both going to come away with riches. But if you push it too far, you will shrink the size of the pot. So as Canned Heat said, “Come on, come on let’s work together.”
January 17, 2022 at 5:22 am #179206At the end of the day, nobody will lose in these negotiations. It’s merely a question of how much more money will be squeezed out of the paying customers.
January 20, 2022 at 9:50 am #179332Below are my thoughts for a potential way to finesse the stalemate over the 5/6 year free agency debate. The intent is to give players more assurance that their year six salary will be very close to market level, while allowing their current team to keep complete control for year six.
1) entering the last year of arbitration (after year five) each side submits a level for arbitration, just as before.
2) Current team can accept the player’s arbitration salary offer with xxx hours of exchange of numbers, winning the player’s services, before he/she is allow to talk with other teams, ending this process (keep in mind that the player can make his/her submitted arbitration salary as high as he/she wants eg $50m, but if it is set too high, and the player never gets a competitive offer to present from another team during this period, then the team will likely win the arbitration), or
3) in the period between exchanging numbers and two days before the arbitration meeting, player and agent are now allowed to talk with other teams, and receive ‘simple’ one* year offers from any/every team.
a) * (to be negotiated for multi-year offers as well)
b) offers must be plain vanilla, no options, puts, calls, party suites, trade restrictions, etc)
c) player/agent looks through the offers and can present just one of them to his/her current team, up to two days before arbitration, all other offers being nullified, and then
d) current team has the option to match the presented offer at 90% (to be negotiated eg 95/100%) and keep the player for his/her last year before free agency.
f) if team doesn’t match the players presented offer (at 90/95/100%), and if team didn’t accept the players exchanged number, then at the end of the last day before arbitration meeting, player at his/her option can accept the offer from the other team (but not any other offers that were presented to the player but not seen by current team).
g) if the player chooses not to accept the offer, the current team and player can have last-minute negotiation to settle, or the arbitration meeting takes place as usual. Arbitrators are required to give some weight to the offer the player submitted, but the player is free to not submit any offer.The purpose is to ensure that the player obtains a competitive salary for year six, determined by market forces, (less a slight haircut because the home team still controls because they can match). There is still potential for illegal collusion, but there is also a motivation for other teams to ‘stick it to the current team’ forcing them to spend top dollar for their year-six players.
This would be really fun to watch.
January 20, 2022 at 11:35 am #179334#stlcards have forbidden media access to all team employees during the lockout, citing a nebulous litigation risk. Rays are rolling out the owner to chat. https://t.co/XR4Vzlfn9I
— Jeff Jones (@jmjones) January 20, 2022
January 20, 2022 at 12:10 pm #179336so cal, that is a well thought out proposal. I sense the players might be for it, but the owners may not. What do you see as the pros and cons for each of the two sides and it is balanced enough to fly?
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