2020 Cardinals line-up & rotation

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This topic contains 176 replies, has 22 voices, and was last updated by Avatar Cardinal in France 1 day, 21 hours ago.

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  • #113797
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    Stop it. Edman was the missing ingredient that they needed… without him, they don’t win.

    #113798
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    forsch31
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    If you don’t like it, don’t respond. Edman was just 1 piece. Nothing more. Maybe he should have tried to play the games by himself. One man against an entire team. It sounds like you are saying he could do it.

    Without the entire team, they don’t win.

    #113803
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    The Edman thing is getting to be a worn out horse between posters. Claude Brown, I am 80 years old and agree with most of what you say but, at this time, it is just so much water over the dam. Spring training will tell the full story. I do expect to see Edman also used as a SS backup simply because Munoz may not be the best option and because DeJong played in 159 games this season and, at the end, it showed.

    Baseball is a team game so no one player accounts solely for a teams success but one player can make a huge difference, not only in wins but in team attitude. In this case, I do think Edman contributed to the overall team effort. In 2019, I cannot imagine if the Cardinals had depended on Carpenter or Munoz to play 3B.

    I read the trade/acquisition thread frequently and I have to say thank you to those to post their pipe dreams. It makes me smile almost daily. We had a good season. I hope Shildt gets the MOY award and I, for one, am happy to see the FO and manager get extended contracts. Good to know we have the same coaches next year also.

    #113812
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    gscottar
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    I’ll say that Edman plays 110-120 games. We’ve seen this show before and until the Cards produce a guy in this mold that can adjust quickly once the league adjusts to him, I’m going to assume he will struggle. It’d be nice to have him be a .300 hitter with an .850 OPS but that seems unrealistic given his minors numbers. He seems like a smart guy though so maybe he can keep the numbers up.

    Your concern is well warranted as we have seen minor league heroes like Grichuk, Piscotty, O’Neill, Bader, and others come up to St. Louis and have initial success only to flounder later.

    I think Edman has a good chance of being the exception because, unlike the others, he is a switch hitter. I think it is more difficult for opposing pitching staffs to attack switch hitters because the batter is not so susceptible to certain wipe out pitches. At least that is my theory. I can see Edman playing at least 135-140 games next year.

    #113821
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    14NyquisT
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    All I can say is that the Cardinal lineup is better with Edman in it, and best when he is 1 or 2 in the order. There should be no discussion about this. 145 to 150 games.

    #113824
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    That is what I have been saying. I am surprised anybody disagrees with this…it seems obvious to me.

    #113826
    Brian Walton
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    Not that anyone clearly wants to discuss this subject using real data, but Edman was best when hitting in the bottom third of the lineup.

    Leading off was his absolute worst spot and it was not even close. He had a fairly long trial there, well over a month – 32 games and 142 plate appearances.

    Edman batting first, StL 2019: .257/.289/.375/.644.

    Further, Wong earned his promotion to the no. 2 spot and should stay there. Given Shildt is likely to keep Fowler leading off (or put Carpenter back there if he goes crazy), Edman will almost certainly hit low in the order and have to earn his way up – as it should be, IMO.

    #113828
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    14NyquisT
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    Edman will almost certaintly hit low in the order and have to earn his way up – as it should be, IMO.

    Hit .305 35 extra base hits. IMO that’s earning it. Fowler or Edman… not even close. Better BA, much better speed and motivated. “Was” … Edman has a brighter future.

    #113830
    Ratsbuddy
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    I believe Edman will continue to do okay. There is a big difference between Edman and the other players that have been mentioned. Such as Grichuk, Bader, Piscotty and O’Neill. And that difference is those four guys swing like maniacs in hopes of hitting a homerun all the time. Edman has a much shorter, quicker stroke and makes contact.

    While I don’t expect amazing things from Edman in 2020 I do expect that he will have a fine season.

    r/Esteemed Rat <~~~~who is going back to the amish restaurant this afternoon. Hope they have sweet potatoes

    #113831
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    He would hit 1st or second for me now.

    #113838
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    He is good but he hasn’t even won the starting assignment at any 1 position.

    I haven’t seen anything from the Cardinals in the last 4-5 years that indicates a rookie can “win” a job from a player making $10 million or more…

    #113840
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    forsch31
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    Fowler in the first half of the season went 1 for 22 hitting leadoff. Over the last 7 games of the season, he was 3 for 27 hitting leadoff. In between, he had 179 PAs in the leadoff position with a slash line of .257/.380/.426/.806. The Cardinals record during those 42 games was 28-14. Edmans hit much better in the 2nd or 7th spot in the order than he did at leadoff. All this shows is that it doesn’t matter whether Fowler or Edman is the leadoff hitter. I think it does show that a lineup where Fowler is playing along with Edman, that Fowler should be leading off and Edman hitting somewhere else in the lineup to get the best producing lineup possible.

    #113856
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    Cardinal in France
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    Who have we got right now better than Edman for 3rd base? If we have another player who hits better, fields better and runs the bases better, then by all means lets play the better guy. If we haven’t got such a player, then start Edman. If Edman doesn’t perform next year after a reasonable time, you can always put the slow, rubber-armed strike taker back at third. What have we got to lose? All predicated on spring training performance, of course.

    #113859
    Brian Walton
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    Reality:

    #113861
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    That may be reality Brian but to me it is more like wishful thinking. But since the FO and Manager all received extensions why should they sweat? If Carpenter doesn’t hit and still plays you can bet that Mo is trying to force the square peg in the round hole to save face. As for those who say he should be put in left field if Ozuna doesn’t resign take a moment to think of Carpenters arm and it makes you appreciate Ozunas even more…….LOL

    #113862
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    Carpenter should not be in LF.

    #113864
    Ratsbuddy
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    They put Pedro Guerrero in LF back in 1992. Remember?

    r/Esteemed Rat <~~~~who is happy because they had sweet potatoes at the amish restaurant today

    #113866
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    It could also be asked where Carpenter’s range and arm hurt us the least. It could very well be LF. A rough look at Baseball Reference shows that there were 381 total chances at 3B and 241 in LF. Now, that doesn’t take into account the number of hits to LF or bunt hits. However, it seems that having a good fielding 3Bman is better than having a good fielding LFer.

    #113867
    stlcard25
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    If Carpenter hits like he did from 2013-18, he wouldn’t hurt in LF at all. He can’t be worse than Ozuna was out there. And I think you’re all forgetting just how poor Ozuna’s arm is. The guy almost had to hand the ball to Dejong at times the last two years.

    #113905
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    gscottar
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    I would be inclined to play Carp in LF over 3B because I think he would do less damage there. Like stl25 mentioned Ozuna’s arm was extremely weak and his routes on the ball were comical at best. Would Carp be worse than guys like JMart, Schwarber, or Castellanos? Probably not.

    Having said that MO stated the other day that he hasn’t heard anything about Carp being in LF next year so it probably won’t happen.

    I would also add that I fully expect Carp and Fowler to be on the roster on opening day and for the entire year. The Cardinals might consider moving them next winter but not this winter. They seem to be more willing to eat salary if it is the final year of a contract.

    Of the two I think Carp has a better chance of a bounceback year than Fowler. What Fowler did in 2019 is probably all we can expect out of him going forward. He wasn’t horrible but we would like better.

    I am not saying Carp can get back to top 10 MVP status but if he could get back to .275avg/375obp/800slg with 20HRs and increase his walk rate then we could live with that.

    #113908
    stlcard25
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    I am not saying Carp can get back to top 10 MVP status but if he could get back to .275avg/375obp/800slg with 20HRs and increase his walk rate then we could live with that.

    I know what you were going for but if Carp slugs .800 I think we’ll more than live with that. Lol.

    Gotta give you a good joshing, Gscottar. I agree with you. If we had Bader or Thomas in CF and O’Neill or Arozarena in RF, I don’t think the defense would be an issue at all. My big worry is that we start Jmart in LF and Fowler in RF because we overemphasize offense again like we did in the Matheny era when the defense was atrocious.

    #113909
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    Cardinals27
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    I would imagine if Carp hits closer to his non 2019 years, he will play third most of the time, but I honestly don’t see that with his pull everything, launch angle approach. In which case, and barring other infield acquisitions, Edman should play mostly at third, with Carp on the bench.

    #113914
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    gscottar
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    I know what you were going for but if Carp slugs .800 I think we’ll more than live with that. Lol.

    Yes that was a typo. I meant .800 OPS. :o)

    #113919
    Brian Walton
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    Speaking of an .800 OPS for Carpenter in 2020…

    #113924
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    CardsFanInChiTown
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    I notice a lot of people on here are claiming that Dakota Hudson is going to come into 2020 and put up 16 Wins and a 3.35 ERA. I’m looking at him as a solid #4/5 starter for a few reasons.

    1) 1.408 WHIP – 4.4 BB per nine and 8.2 hits per nine
    2) Led the majors in BB’s overall
    3) 4.93 FIP – I take those numbers with a grain of salt, regardless, he had to get very lucky to end up with a 3.35 ERA
    4) 7.0 K’s per nine, that’s not terrible by any means, but not a #2 or 3 type starter stuff, they typically are over 8, even Waino was at 8.0 this past season

    I’m not saying he isn’t a value to the organization, just that expectations should be of him being the 2 or 3 guy moving forward.

    Doubtful anyone will agree with this, but he’s a perfect example of a situation where they should look into selling high.

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