2020 Cardinals line-up & rotation

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This topic contains 176 replies, has 22 voices, and was last updated by Avatar Cardinal in France 1 day, 22 hours ago.

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  • #112531
    Brian Walton
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    GC said:

    Any line-up that doesn’t have Tommy Edman in it can be dismissed.

    We get your love of Tommy, but that is just your opinion. Mine is that the 2020 Cardinals may be a better team if he opens as a supersub, then steps in as an everyday regular at one position whenever the inevitable injuries occur. That is how he was used in 2019, and it worked exceptionally well.

    P.S. Your original lineup either has Carpenter and Fowler on the bench or disappearing somewhere. As already noted, that is probably not realistic.

    #112532
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    Look anyone who watched the Cardinals this year knows that they would have not won the Central without Edmans and probably would not have made the playoffs. It is not my love for him…it is a reality. I think that super-sub downplays his role and importance. He is a multi-role starter. I bet Mike Shildt and Management looks at it like I do. He is an everyday starter they just don’t know where he will start.

    #112533
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    I don’t care what posters think…I care what the Cardinals actually will do.

    #112534
    Brian Walton
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    It is just words, labels. Of course, Shildt thinks of Edman as a starter. His job is to build up his guys. Edman will get plenty of plate appearances in 2020, but I doubt he will be the everyday starter at 3B as your original lineup indicated.

    #112535
    Brian Walton
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    GC said:

    I care what the Cardinals actually will do.

    Since we can’t tell the future, the best we can do at this point is guess and speculate.

    #112536
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    I do not think his role will be a starter at 3B every day because I don’t know how the roster will be constructed but he will in it somewhere. He is not a sub in any sense. He is a multi-role starter.

    #112540
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    You are the one that introduced the phrase What will the Cardinals actually do. You said this: “This goes back to the question asked earlier – is this about what posters want or what we think the Cardinals will actually do?” Of course, it is speculation. That was what my line-up was.

    #112541
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    I think if they are going with a cheaper, short term outfielder it could be someone like Corey Dickerson.

    #112543
    stlcard25
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    I do not think his role will be a starter at 3B every day because I don’t know how the roster will be constructed but he will in it somewhere. He is not a sub in any sense. He is a multi-role starter.

    I wrote that he would start 5-6 days a week all over the diamond. Who cares if that’s called a super sub or a multi-role starter? Bottom line, I don’t think he starts opening day if the Cards pick up a 3B. If not, then sure.

    I’ll give you a few other names to consider before we assume that Edman will be a star or even a starter going forward…Randal Grichuk, Aledmys Diaz, Paul Dejong, and Harrison Bader. All four looked as good or better than Edman in their first taste of MLB. Any of those besides Dejong look irreplaceable in the lineup of any team right now? Let’s see Tommy adjust to the adjustments of the rest of the league before we anoint him anything besides a promising young player at this point in his development.

    #112544
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    Edman may have been valuable to the 2019 season but to completely rely on him starting every day could prove to be foolish if he suffers the “sophomore slump”.

    I, personally, would not rate him higher than Wong at 2nd or Arozarena in the OF. It’s obvious that Fowler will get every opportunity to play. If Bader is hitting, he will play. DeJong seems to play no matter how he is hitting. That leaves Edman either starting at 3B or super-sub.

    I believe the Cardinals best plan of action is to proceed with the thought that Edman will be a super-sub and then make sure the roster reflects that philosophy.

    #112545
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    You are the one that introduced the phrase What will the Cardinals actually do. You said this: “This goes back to the question asked earlier – is this about what posters want or what we think the Cardinals will actually do?” Of course, it is speculation. That was what my line-up was.

    Unless I am reading this wrong, this response doesn’t answer the question. Are you stating what you want or speculating what the Cardinals will do?

    #112547
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    I have already answered that earlier in the thread. The line-up was speculation based on the current options. My question to Brian was what he would do? Obviously no one knows for sure at this point. Management has a plan but it could change based on circumstances.

    #112621
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    So if the Cards want to spend big money on a free agent outfielder, why not focus on re-signing Ozuna, who says he wants to come back vs. competing in the open market for Castellanos, a player who may or may not want to play here? I sense folks know Ozuna’s warts and assume that Castellanos doesn’t come with his own concerns. That would be a mistake.

    I don’t think the Cardinals will sign either one of them either but I think Castellanos will be cheaper while putting up as good or better offensive numbers than Ozuna. The fact we could gain a draft pick by losing Ozuna but not surrendering one by signing Castellanos is appealing.

    Having said all of that I would say as of today there is at least a 50% chance our starting LF on opening day is Carp or Edman.

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 6 days ago by Avatar gscottar.
    #112624
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    My stab at next year’s opening day lineup:

    RF Fowler
    2B Wong
    1B Goldy
    3B Moustakas
    SS Dejong
    LF Carp
    C Yadi
    CF Bader

    SP-Flaherty, Mikolas, Hudson, Cmart, Waino

    O’Neill is traded for bullpen help, Jmart is traded for whatever. By midseason, Carlson is starting in RF and either Fowler or Carp are riding the bench. Edman becomes the super sub, playing 5-6 days a week at 3B, SS, 2B and RF until Carlson is ready. He falls off sharply from his hot 2019 (we’ve seen the story too many times before) but is still useful with his league average bat and solid defense. Reyes is the surprise of 2020 with a healthy and solid season making him a rotation mainstay by June.

    That seems very likely to me. I know it pains you to type in Moose’s name but I still think he would be a good acquisition. Ideally we could get Moose on a 2 year deal. 3 years might work if the AAV was reduced.

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 6 days ago by Avatar gscottar.
    #112626
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    There is no way the opening day line-up does not include Tommy Edman. Did any of you see the Cardinals play this year? He was the main difference-maker and Mike Shildt is not sitting him. Again he is not a reserve.

    #112627
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    There is no way the opening day line-up does not include Tommy Edman. Did any of you see the Cardinals play this year? He was the main difference-maker and Mike Shildt is not sitting him. Again he is not a reserve.

    I think he and Carp will both be utility guys with Edman getting more AB’s. I could see Edman being the starter in LF on opening day.

    I would also say that we had better figure out who the backup SS is and let that person play more. DeJong needs a lot more rest. As in a LOT more.

    #112629
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    I would also say that we had better figure out who the backup SS is and let that person play more. DeJong needs a lot more rest. As in a LOT more.

    To me, that guy should be Edman. He’s not going to be great at SS but I think he could be average. You start Edman at least once a week in place of Dejong (preferably against a RHP) and you’re in better shape by season’s end. Cause I agree that Dejong wore down late in the year.

    #112631
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    Edman is no utility guy and Edman is the back-up SS. Edman has played 2B & SS all his career…3B is the position that he had to learn.

    #112632
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    That seems very likely to me. I know it pains you to type in Moose’s name but I still think he would be a good acquisition. Ideally we could get Moose on a 2 year deal. 3 years might work if the AAV was reduced.

    Yeah, I feel like we are being groomed for Moose as the big acquisition for the offense. And to be fair, he could provide what Ozuna did this year. Next year will likely hinge on Goldy and Carpenter bouncing back to something more like their 2013-18 numbers. Those two went from 42.4 and 33.5 weighted runs above average to 15.2 and -2.2. While not an exact translation, that’s around 60 runs of offense less, or the difference between the 10th and 5th best offense in the NL this year.

    #112633
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    Edman is no utility guy and Edman is the back-up SS. Edman has played 2B & SS all his career…3B is the position that he had to learn.

    That’s just playing with terms is all. Someone who plays multiple positions on a regular basis is a utility guy. Call him whatever you’d like, but the Cards probably have a guy at every position but maybe 3B they’ll prefer ahead of him at the start of 2020. It doesn’t mean he won’t get 500 PA or 100+ starts if he plays well. It’s just a title. Carpenter was a utility guy at the beginning of his career too.

    #112636
    Brian Walton
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    No, Edman is NOT the backup shortstop. He has played a grand total of zero innings there as a major leaguer. Look it up.

    In the rare occasions that DeJong sat, Munoz played. Why has Edman played five other positions, but never at SS even once over his first 100 games in MLB? A very good question that is unanswered. I am pretty sure it is not an odd coincidence.

    That could change in 2020, but let’s be accurate about what the situation is.

    #112639
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    He hasn’t played one of his normal positions because:
    1. There was stability at SS
    2. He was having to play 3 other positions:3B,RF & 3B
    3. Yes, he thoroughly capable of playing SS at the MLB level…it is one of his natural positions. He played RF & 3B at the MLB level which wasn’t normal positions for him. Why couldn’t he play at position he is more comfortable with?
    4. Perhaps we can clone him and have him play 2B,SS,3B,RF and LF. Save a lot of money.

    #112643
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    I would start Edman at third in 2020 until somebody demonstrably better comes along.

    #112644
    Brian Walton
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    Edman’s somewhat limited range at short became more apparent as he moved into Double-A, then Triple-A. He is very steady with what he gets to. This season before his promotion, he started just 9 games at SS for Memphis and 36 at other positions, mostly second, as well as third and OF. With a blank sheet of paper and an open lineup, he would be a second baseman.

    #112650
    stlcard25
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    Edman’s somewhat limited range at short became more apparent as he moved into Double-A, then Triple-A.

    Is it an instincts thing? Because he’s clearly faster than Dejong and doesn’t seem to have much worse an arm, if any. Dejong is, by all accounts, a fantastic defender at short. I don’t think Edman would be as good as Paul there, but it seems like he could be average. I agree with your later assessment that he’d be better at 2B though.

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