2020 Cardinals line-up & rotation

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This topic contains 176 replies, has 22 voices, and was last updated by Avatar Cardinal in France 1 day, 21 hours ago.

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  • #112454
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    1.Edman 3B
    2.Wong 2B
    3.Castellanos LF
    4.Goldschmidt 1B
    5.Carlson RF
    6.DeJong SS
    7.Molina C
    8.Bader CF

    1.Flaherty
    2.Mikolas
    3.Bumgarner
    4.Hudson
    5.Wainwright/Reyes

    #112482
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    gscottar
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    I don’t have a problem with that Gamecard but Brian and stl25 will scold you for suggesting we sign Nick the Stick. Some believe his defense is worse than Ozuna’s and JMart’s combined if you can believe that.

    By the way, are you suggesting the Cardinals will pay Carp 18.5 and Fowler 16.5 to sit on the bench? I would say highly unlikely.

    #112484
    Brian Walton
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    According the SABR Defensive Index, which is 25% of the Gold Glove Award scoring, Castellanos was the second-worst right fielder in the AL in the most recent results posted (through August 18) with a negative 2.9 score. That score is lower than both Fowler and Ozuna this season.

    In 2018, Castellanos’ SDI was negative 9.9, making him the worst RF in the league, according to this blended metric. In 2017, he was MLB’s worst third baseman defensively with a negative 12.5 SDI, which led to him being moved to the OF.

    Please share your contrary data that indicates Castellanos is anything other than a bad option in the field. We’ll be waiting… But hey, he played for the Cubs, so there’s that! 😉

    #112489
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    gscottar
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    Please share your contrary data that indicates Castellanos is anything other than a bad option in the field. We’ll be waiting… But hey, he played for the Cubs, so there’s that! 😉

    Gee whiz, a little testy today aren’t we?

    I am not saying Castellanos would be our best upgrade but I would take him over Fowler 7 days a week. I would take him over Ozuna too. His defense might be slightly worse than Ozuna’s (seems hard to imagine that is possible) but I like his bat much more than Ozuna. And it has nothing to do with him playing for the Cubs, other than he was their best player the final two months of the season.

    #112491
    stlcard25
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    I have a sinking feeling that Moustakas will be our 3B next year. Goold mentioned him multiple times in his chat the other day, and said we should get used to his name coming up as an option.

    Castellanos is a bad defender. If he can hit like he did in Chicago, all would be forgiven. As is, he’s more likely to hit like Jose Martinez and we already have one of those. I’m not sure what you do with all the extra OFers if you sign yet another one.

    #112492
    Brian Walton
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    If you dish it out, you have to be able to take it! 😉

    #112494
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    His bat offsets his defensive problems is the obvious answer.

    #112496
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    To quote Derrick Goold LF is where you don’t too much attention to the glove but how much they produce at the plate.

    #112498
    stlcard25
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    His bat offsets his defensive problems is the obvious answer.

    If he hits like he did in Chicago (154 wRC+), then yes. If he hits like he has in his career (112 wRC+) or even like he did in Detroit this year (105 wRC+), then nope.

    #112499
    Brian Walton
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    GC, how did that work out with Ozuna this season?

    #112500
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    I would be fine with Ozuna back on a one year deal. Offensive production at the plate is usually what you are looking for in LF.

    #112501
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    14NyquisT
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    Gamecard… I’m not sure if your lineup is what you want to see or if you think its a lineup we’re apt to see. Two very different topics. If its the latter… just look at Mozeliak’s last 5 or 6 off-season’s. If you put it out as what we want to see… no two lineup will be the same. Only Mo knows.

    ps. I like Edman and Wong 1-2.

    #112502
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    More of what I want to see based on the options. I would like to get rid of Fowler but I don’t think anyone will take his salary. Carpenter, I am willing to keep as an LH bat off the bench, back-up at 3B & 1B. Tommy Edman along with Goldschmidt is the Cardinal’s most important position player. Edman is where you get the flexibility in the line-up.

    #112508
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    Also, Castellanos does not have a qualifying offer attached.

    #112511
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    Cardinal in France
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    Minus Castellanos and Bumgarner, I agree. My gut tells me those two would give me a serious case of heartburn.

    #112512
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    CariocaCardinal
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    I dont see the Cards giving up the draft pick for Bumgarner

    #112516
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    gscottar
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    Also, Castellanos does not have a qualifying offer attached.

    Bingo. No qualifying offer. That is a big deal. Take the comp pick for letting Ozuna walk but don’t have to give up a pick by signing Castellanos. Win win. Ozuna has a little more power than Castellanos but Castellanos is a better overall hitter. He had 58 doubles this past year. His numbers were more pedestrian in Detroit but that is very much a pitcher’s park and they are a lousy team. He seemed more energized playing for a contender.

    As for Madbum, he would cost us a draft pick so I change my vote to no on that. Keuchel on the other hand would not cost us a pick.

    #112522
    Brian Walton
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    I am confused by the Castellanos boosterism. Over time, Castellanos and Ozuna have been almost the same player offensively, 113 to 112 career OPS+. Both are under 29 years of age. Neither has a comp pick attached (for the Cardinals). Ozuna is a better fielder.

    So if the Cards want to spend big money on a free agent outfielder, why not focus on re-signing Ozuna, who says he wants to come back vs. competing in the open market for Castellanos, a player who may or may not want to play here? I sense folks know Ozuna’s warts and assume that Castellanos doesn’t come with his own concerns. That would be a mistake.

    Hanging your hat on Castellanos’ improved 2019 as a signal of big things to come reminds me exactly of how we all looked at Ozuna’s huge 2017 numbers with Miami and assumed they would translate to StL. But as we all know, they didn’t. It was an outlier year.

    Speaking of Ozuna’s 2017, his bWAR of 7.1 that year alone is more than Castellanos has delivered in his entire six-year MLB career combined, 6.1. Castellanos’ best season was 2.9 bWAR, in 2018, not 2019. 2.9 is the same as Ozuna’s third-best career year. (This is another indication how bad Castellanos’ defense is.)

    The difference is the Cards could get out from under the original commitment to Ozuna after two years. Whichever of the two they might sign now, they are going to have for at least five or six more years, in my estimation, and it is going to be very expensive. They had better be darned sure about what they would be getting or it could make Fowler’s bad contract look like peanuts.

    (Personally, I bet they won’t sign either.)

    #112524
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    I wouldn’t give either a 5 or 6 yr. deal but we have to a power bat to protect Goldschmidt and help him out. I am not tied to Castellanos…I just understand that we have to do m something and we need more than just Bader,Carlson & Arozarena. What would you do?

    #112525
    stlcard25
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    My stab at next year’s opening day lineup:

    RF Fowler
    2B Wong
    1B Goldy
    3B Moustakas
    SS Dejong
    LF Carp
    C Yadi
    CF Bader

    SP-Flaherty, Mikolas, Hudson, Cmart, Waino

    O’Neill is traded for bullpen help, Jmart is traded for whatever. By midseason, Carlson is starting in RF and either Fowler or Carp are riding the bench. Edman becomes the super sub, playing 5-6 days a week at 3B, SS, 2B and RF until Carlson is ready. He falls off sharply from his hot 2019 (we’ve seen the story too many times before) but is still useful with his league average bat and solid defense. Reyes is the surprise of 2020 with a healthy and solid season making him a rotation mainstay by June.

    #112526
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    forsch31
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    stl25, whose place in the rotation does Reyes take?

    #112527
    stlcard25
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    stl25, whose place in the rotation does Reyes take?

    Whoever ends up hurt. My guess would be either Waino or Cmart, but no way of knowing. It’s pretty rare for this team to have 5 starters stay healthy and effective all year long.

    #112528
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    How about the Cardinals sign Ozuna to a 5 year deal. Make it front loaded and give a player opt-out after 2 years. While I know the Cardinals don’t usually give opt-outs, this would be a perfect opportunity. Give Ozuna a little comfort but also give him a carrot. He gets the opportunity to up his value and re-enter the free agent market at a fairly young age. The last key to the contract would be that there is NOT a no-trade clause. The Cardinals have already included them in too many contracts.

    #112529
    Brian Walton
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    GameCard asked:

    “What would you do?”

    This goes back to the question asked earlier – is this about what posters want or what we think the Cardinals will actually do? I always focus on trying to figure out the latter, as my personal opinion is no more relevant than anyone else’s.

    My guess is that they will explore a trade for a controllable hitter or sign a shorter term (2 years or less) free agent. I would think third base could be the focus, with Carpenter moved to left. If Carp continues to struggle deeply into 2020, then one of the young outfielders replaces him.

    #112530
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    Any line-up that doesn’t have Tommy Edman in it can be dismissed.

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