2020 Cardinals line-up & rotation

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This topic contains 176 replies, has 22 voices, and was last updated by Avatar Cardinal in France 6 days, 15 hours ago.

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  • #113928
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
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    Not debating your numbers, ChiTown, but they are certainly known by other teams, too. Sign me up if any team is willing to vastly overpay for a Cardinal player…

    Having said that, the rotation is not a clear strength heading into 2020. They have the Wacha opening to fill and have to cross their fingers that Wainwright can squeeze out one more year.

    Hudson appears durable and makes the minimum salary. If he is traded, to add to the rotation questions, they better be sure they can do better with his replacement (while also filling the other open spot(s).)

    #113930
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    Our rotation should look something like this:
    1. Flaherty
    2. Mikolas
    3. Hudson
    4. LH acquisition
    5. Waino/Reyes/Cabrera

    #113955
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    CardsFanInChiTown
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    Mikolas as the #2 GameCard? I swear I’m not trying to fight with ya because you make a lot of good points BUT…

    4.16 Era, 1.2 WHIP, low K’s, etc (in the NL)

    That’s a 4 or 5 on a championship contender in my opinion.

    #113957
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    858booyah
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    I don’t want Waino back. It’s going to be another terrible choice by our brass when we could allocate those funds elsewhere.

    I mean you hear rumblings they’ll stand pat. Let’s see what happens.

    #113968
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    forsch31
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    I want wino back on a similar deal to last year. Low base salary with many incentives.

    #113977
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    gscottar
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    Hudson has immense value to the Cardinals. Having a guy who can give you 175-200 innings with a sub 4 era while making the league minimum is terrific. A lot of teams would like to have such a problem. I wouldn’t trade him unless it was a blockbuster with a big name coming back.

    #113997
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    CardsFanInChiTown
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    I agree that he has a lot of value with the numbers you suggest, but some were talking about how we have a solid 1 and 2 in Flaherty and Hudson, and Hudson is good and a very valuable asset, but not a #2 or 3 starter on a championship contender.

    I sure wish they would have taken Walker Buehler instead of Nick Plummer!

    #114000
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    Nigel T
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    Shame on anyone who doesn’t want Waino back. Seriously?
    We’re you born without a soul? Are the robot androids replacing humanity?

    #114001
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    Nigel T
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    Hudson has so much value right now that you could possibly pair him with Gorman and one more shiney piece and get Chapman. Incredible. We have that one chip in Hudson that could acquire a transcendent talent because we have some complimentary chips that create a major package

    #114002
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    Wooster
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    With the team getting as far as they did this year it seems to me what we really need is some offense. Looks like Wacha and Waino may be gone but we seem to have some young arms doing well. Also seems like it takes about 3 years for a new guy to start hitting for average. Kinda looks like some long term contract guys are coming up really short in the hitting department. Also some lackluster performance from some daily young guys. Wonder if anybody’s working on improving their batting in the offseason? Or are they all out playing golf?

    #114003
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    Minuteman3
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    I picture Waino as having good days and bad days (could say that about any pitcher I guess). But I believe his good days will once again outnumber the bad. The guy is a wiley veteran and, combined with Molina behind the plate, knows how to pitch most of the big bats. Sure he will give up some home runs and the time to take him out is when the consecutive hits start to pile up but, overall, he can play on my team any day. Pay – well that’s up to the guys above my level.

    #114004
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
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    Father Time always wins. The only question is when?

    #114038
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    gscottar
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    Wainwright looked incredibly strong physically this past season. I am optimistic he can be a plus for us again one more year.

    As for the OF, unless he really bombs in spring training my starting CF would be Lane Thomas. I think he has the potential to put up some big numbers and his defense doesn’t seem to be much of a drop off from Bader.

    I wouldn’t mind having Arozarena as our starting LF either if we are determined to use internal guys since we don’t have the payroll space for outside the organization.

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 1 day ago by Avatar gscottar.
    #114040
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
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    As we’ve discussed on the Trade Ideas thread, some of us believe the Cards could pick up a veteran LHH outfielder on a one-year deal to start at least until Carlson is ready. It is not as if they have no more money to spend. It probably just won’t be a major expenditure.

    Just to be clear, I am not against another incentive-laden contract for Wainwright to return. I just remember similar optimism before they gave aging Lance Berkman a second year in which he was hurt and delivered little. I am counting on less from Waino in 2020 than he delivered in 2019.

    Wainwright earned his salary in 2014 and 2019. He didn’t in 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018 and is now 38 years of age.

    He has been a great Cardinal, but he may join many others who chose to not go out on top.

    #114071
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    gscottar
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    VEB outlook on the roster and the concept of continuity…

    https://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2019/11/10/20939760/trimming-the-fat

    #114072
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    gscottar
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    #114084
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    mspaid
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    The only one out of Hummel’s list that is likely to sign with the Cardianals is Wainwright.

    #114087
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    GameCard
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    The Cardinals should sign Bumgarner.

    #114113
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    gscottar
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    #114117
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    14NyquisT
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    From the VEB story from gscottar;

    Sunk costs are one of the real weaknesses of this front office — actually, if I were to hazard a guess I would say sunk costs are more a weakness of ownership, but whatever — and the only reason I can possibly see for Cecil still being around is because someone doesn’t want to admit that money is just gone at this point.

    This sounds so familiar.

    #114119
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
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    Some people are so upset about Cecil that they cannot see straight.

    As noted, his salary is sunken cost. What that means is that NO MONEY IS SAVED by releasing him and there is no additional cost in keeping him. There is not a lot of pressure on the 40-man roster this winter, which would be the ONLY LOGICAL REASON to release him NOW.

    He had surgery and they are going to see how he pitches in the spring. If he does well, then he stays, if not, they will dump him like they did Gregerson, Holland and others.

    Please explain a LOGICAL REASON to release Cecil now. (I’ll hang up and listen…)

    #114120
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    gscottar
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    I don’t have a problem with keeping Cecil through ST to see if he has anything left. My problem with Cecil is that his $7.25 can’t be spent elsewhere, but that is a totally different issue than whether he should be on the roster today or on opening day.

    #114121
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    14NyquisT
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    Never mind responding to a phone call… kindly read your emails and respond.

    #114122
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
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    gscottar, of course you are right. The real problem occurred three years ago when the contract was given – BUT there is absolutely nothing that can be done about that. Yet, the same irrational cries to release him continue from those who can’t or won’t think it through.

    These critics would also be the first in line to blast the front office for their stupidity if they released him and (miraculously) Cecil came back to pitch well for another team in 2020, with the Cards still paying his salary for both his rehab time and results elsewhere.

    #114123
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    thejager
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    Only reason to release Cecil is to clear up a spot for someone to protect via Rule 5. OR if we needed to clear room to acquire someone via trade.

    Those are the only logical arguments. One could argue losing a player to Rule V (even a middling player who MAY not get picked) is not worth the potential value of Cecil returning due to the lack of confidence in him to stay healthy OR perform well.

    What is more likely? Cecil returning to form? Or someone taking a gamble on a player we HOPE won’t get picked in Rule V?

    It’s a tougher call than i’d like to admit at this point though.

    Perdomo could be a nice piece for the pen or rotation right now. And trading Mercado seems a huge error if it was linked to making room for him for protection in Rule V. Though, it could go the other way and we keep Derian Gonzalez and he hasn’t panned out to b worth that 40man spot he got a while back.

    I still remember how good Cecil can be. I was a big fan of the acquisition at the time. But i have only seen that pitcher for a handful of games due to ineffectiveness and injury. I’m not sure even if healthy he would be the guy we are paying.

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