2020 Cardinals line-up & rotation

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This topic contains 176 replies, has 22 voices, and was last updated by Avatar Cardinal in France 1 day, 22 hours ago.

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  • #112655
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    Edman will be a more than capable back-up to DeJong.

    #112663
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    forsch31
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    It’s just that he won’t be used there as much as Munoz, if at all.

    #112666
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    He probably won’t be because he is playing other positions. I would take him over Munoz.

    #112667
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    forsch31
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    Edman was called up on June 8th. On June 10th, Munoz started at SS while Edman sat the bench. On July 14th, Munoz started at SS while Edman sat the bench. On August 17th, Munoz started at SS while Edman started in RF and Thomas and Arozarena were on the bench. On September 1st, Munoz started at SS while Edman started at 2B and Wong sat the bench. On September 25th, Munoz started at SS while Edman started at 3B.

    It sure looks to me like Munoz is the backup SS. Munoz has started 26 games at 2B, 17 at 3B, 7 in both RF and CF and 4 in LF. So he is capable of playing those positions, too.

    #112669
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    forsch31
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    He probably won’t be because he is playing other positions. I would take him over Munoz.

    I will summarize one of your favorite comeback themes to people who you disagree with: obviously Mike Shildt thinks Munoz is the backup SS and he is the only who counts.

    #112670
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    Edman was playing another position…he cannot play two at the same time.

    #112671
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    1982 willie
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    well far as people saying carpenter is moving to left field. how, he can barely get the ball to first from third, we would have to set up a train to get the ball in from the outfield. far as edman goes, im going to have to wait and see how he does early. lot of guys do well the first year but fall off. if no better option available, hes playing at third with carp on bench in my scenario along with fowler. but that’s probably unrealistic. I figure it will be business as usual. they are satisfied we made the playoffs which seems to be their goal, not world series. so they probably put the same lot out there if they manage to sign ozuna. oh they might put somebody in for bader which will probably be someone far worse on defense so we will then have the worst outfield in the league. I look at it this way so im not disappointed and if management actually does try to do something big, then ill be surprised.

    #112680
    Euro Dandy
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    On June 10th, Munoz started at SS while Edman sat the bench. On July 14th, Munoz started at SS while Edman sat the bench.

    Maybe Edman is the 3rd string SS. 😉

    #112682
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    Edman was called up to St. Louis on June 8 so it isn’t surprising that he didn’t start two days later. I have no idea about circumstances on July 14 but you are going to some lengths to cherry-pick 1 game.

    #112689
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    Just like you are making huge assumptions that Edman is the backup SS without playing 1 inning in the major leagues at that position.

    Besides, it wasn’t just 1 game. He had Thomas and Arozarena on the bench when Edman was playing the OF. It would have been VERY easy to play one of them in the OF and Edman at SS. There are other dates that Edman could have played SS. Edman did not start anywhere on September 12th, the second game on September 1st, August 21st, August 15th, August 5th, July 26th, July 13, July 14 and July 15th. After all, DeJong was hitting VERY poorly. From May 25th to the end of June, DeJong hit .190. If you include all of July, DeJong was hitting .196 since May 25th. DeJong only hit .219 in July and August. Despite all of this, DeJong kept starting every game while Edman was still available to start some games at SS.

    It’s a pretty lame excuse to say he was starting other positions. There were other players who were hitting better than DeJong to play those other positions while Edman gave DeJong a break. Carpenter hit .267/.366/.500/.866 in September. He could have played a little more and Edman play SS. But the fact of the matter is that Shildt chose to not play Edman at SS. The only time he chose to give DeJong the game off, he started Munoz.

    Obviously, Shildt believes Munoz is the backup SS and he is the only one who counts.

    #112709
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    gscottar
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    well far as people saying carpenter is moving to left field. how, he can barely get the ball to first from third, we would have to set up a train to get the ball in from the outfield.

    As of now I would say our starting LF would be Edman or Carp with the other one playing 3B. Where else are they going to play? I just don’t see the Cardinals paying Carp $18.5M in 2020 to be a bench bat. That isn’t the Cardinal way. Yes, he rode the bench towards the end of 2019 but I don’t think they could do that all year. Someone’s head would explode.

    #112711
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    He will be a bench player if he doesn’t produce.

    #112715
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    14NyquisT
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    Mozeliak can right all of his wrongs by getting Rendon for this team. Get him at any cost.

    #112717
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    Cardinals27
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    My biggest concern going into 2020 is to have the outfield situation handled like 3rd base this season. If Edman is playing better, he should play 2nd or 3rd. Fowler and Bader have to hit, or they should be benched. IN Fowlers case, I would prefer traded, but we all know that is very unlikely.

    #112719
    stlcard25
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    Agreed, C27…we have O’Neill, Thomas and Arozarena who can all play a competent CF. Bader needs to be a nearly average hitter or his elite defense isn’t good enough to nudge out those guys, who could all play average to plus defense themselves with above average hitting too.

    #112722
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    gscottar
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    He will be a bench player if he doesn’t produce.

    Maybe but they will give him a long leash, at least until 2 or 3 months before they pull the trigger.

    #112775
    Brian Walton
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    Uh oh. Someone is not going to like this comparison at all…

    https://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2019/10/23/20925749/randal-grichuk-harrison-bader-and-tommy-edman

    #112782
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    The most important thing the article says is that without Tommy Edman the Cardinals don’t make the postseason. What he does in the future remains to be seen. I don’t see why anyone questions his worth to the Cardinals…just be happy that we have him.

    #112788
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    Cardinal in France
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    I don’t see why such effort is being made to tear down Tommy Edman. To me, the approach is simple: If we have somebody better, play the better guy. If Edman stops producing, sit him or send him down. It’s not like he’s busting the payroll.

    #112794
    Brian Walton
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    No one is tearing down Edman. Some are simply seeking a more balanced view of what he is and is not.

    #112799
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    My view on Tommy Edman is balanced based on performance and what he meant to the 2019 Cardinals.

    #112802
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    PugsleyAddams
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    Uh oh. Someone is not going to relish this comparison at all…

    Whew! Thought someone was going to make a poor comparison to Alexander “The Great”, Brian. But, doing it to Tommy Edman is in extremely poor judgement as well. Some players are special…..and we seasoned fans know it right off the bat. Are we sometimes fooled? Certainly, but that depends on the circumstances. Comparing Grichuk to Edman is ridiculous. The jury is still way out on Bader. Tommy Edman was and always will be light years ahead of Grichuk as to his value to his team. We have an extremely special talent in our midst…..and it’s as obvious as the nose on your face.

    #112803
    Euro Dandy
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    The article raises valid points to consider regarding Edman. I’ve even heard some bring up Bo Hart references, LOL. Let’s hope not.

    Yes, it would be nice if Edman drew more walks, but he’s probably not going to be a big BB guy. However, his K rate is vastly different from Bader’s or Grichuk’s, so that puts these comparisons on the weak side for me. Bader and Grichuk seem to always have the same swing plane, swing angle, swing location, etc. The swing looks great when bat meets fastball over the fat part of the plate. The swing looks ridiculous on a breaking balls that land in the batter’s box on the other side of the plate. You don’t see that to nearly the same degree with Edman.

    The article talks about a “one-year” spike in ISO. It also talks about BABIP. It is suggesting a regression to the mean when his luck drops. I wouldn’t look at Edman that way at this point. Statistical regression about a mean is random movement around a predictable target. It works for guys like Trout/Altuve/etc. because their expectations have stabilized. However, it might not work so well for things that are evolving/developing.

    That might be the case with Edman. Maybe his physical strength has matured later in life to make him a different type of player. Maybe he has changed his conditioning and hitting approach to capitalize on that. After all, he is a smart guy. If you look at the evolution of Edman’s data below (the same types of data used in the article), it looks like he is evolving/developing. That makes it more difficult to predict a regression for Edman vis-à-vis Grichuk and Bader. Hopefully, he continues improving, because I love watching a player who appears to enjoy busting his ass on the field every chance he gets.

    ISO
    – NCAA .084
    – AA .103
    – AAA .175
    – MLB .196

    BABIP
    – NCAA .301
    – AA .324
    – AAA .340
    – MLB .346

    K Rate
    – NCAA 7.8%
    – AA 14.9%
    – AAA 15.0%
    – MLB 18.7%

    BB Rate
    – NCAA 10.5%
    – AA 6.9%
    – AAA 7.8%
    – MLB 4.9%

    #112804
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    Minuteman3
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    In my view, Munoz got worse this season overall. Better overall on errors but worse on his late season pinch hitting. I would like to see Tommy Edman get a couple of starts at SS to give DeJong a break or Edman could be put at SS in a few ST games to evaluate him at that position. I understand he did play SS in the minors.

    Quick comment on the World Series: Both teams train at the same West Palm Beach facility. ST may not be a good place to be around there……..LOL

    I still believe ONeil will be traded as he does not seem to be able to improve that strikeout rate. He is not bad in the OF but how many Baders can we tolerate at the plate?

    #112805
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    Anyone who compares Bo Hart to Tommy Edman has a poor understanding of baseball.

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