Yadier Molina Contract Extension??

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  • #145076
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Goold also raised the Yankees in his Monday chat, but was very careful in his wording. The Yankees “have been mentioned as an intriguing possibility” – without saying who mentioned it. He could be referring to Hummel as far as I can tell…

    But if I am Molina’s agent, I am certainly going to stir up news of interest, whether real or imagined – if for no other reason than to serve as leverage in his upcoming negotiations with the Cardinals. It is how the signing game is played.

    It can be a real challenge trying to sort out the substance from the noise…

    #145112
    Avatarmudville
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    The Cardinals and their fan base have already given Yadier Molina $155M, and now, at the age of 38, Yadi wants the most money he can get, or he will leave. Go figure.

    #145119
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    I don’t understand the knock on Knizner when looking at Yadi’s defensive decline over the past 4 years. Since 2016 Molina only has compiled a DRS of 6. That’s just over 1 DRS per season, and he was making $20M during three of those seasons. In addition, according to Fangraphs his pitch framing has fallen off a cliff in those 4 years. Then when looking at his offensive numbers, an 82 wRC+ (and an 87 wRC+ in 2019) isn’t going to cut for me and it shouldn’t for anyone. Ultimately where I look at is if Molina can at least get on base and he can’t even really do that with a OBP just slightly above .300. If you want your team to win, giving past-their-prime players contracts and leaving them as a starter doesn’t make sense. This team is being hamstrung by giving old players contracts and not being able to move from them (not the sole problem, but definitely one of them).

    I’m not opposed to bringing Molina back but in no way shape or form should he be made the guaranteed starting catcher or given a hefty extension.

    #145122
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    I don’t understand the knock on Knizner when looking at Yadi’s defensive decline over the past 4 years.

    Other than 2016 (oddly 17th), the Cards have been 1st or 2nd in fewest stolen bases allowed every season since 2007 that I can find. It may not seem like a huge difference but every stolen base thwarted is a RISP or runner at 3rd prevented. Is that all on Yadi? Probably not, but it can’t be a coincidence.

    Knizner is not known for being a good defensive catcher. Yadi may not be quite them player he used to be, but he’s still an average or (I think) above catcher. I would like to see more of what we have in Knizner so we can decide if he’s a suitable candidate for taking over or splitting time with Herrera when Yadi leaves.

    #145132
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Not that it is worth anything, but John Smoltz just said that if he could choose between a defensive catcher and an offensive one, he would take the better hitter.

    #145152
    Avatargscottar
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    If you want your team to win, giving past-their-prime players contracts and leaving them as a starter doesn’t make sense. This team is being hamstrung by giving old players contracts and not being able to move from them (not the sole problem, but definitely one of them).

    BHC, you just stated the biggest achilles heal of this front office. It is basically why we don’t win the division each year.

    #145203
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Apparently, here is a writer willing to give Molina a blank check for two years, saying that the money doesn’t matter because the Cardinals won’t use it elsewhere to improve the team, anyway.

    I really, really disagree. Every poker game should have a limit.

    Was letting Albert Pujols go “the mistake of a lifetime”? Unless one can tell the future, making such a pronouncement ahead of time is just bluster.

    #145449
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    I’m not sure how Molina could be thought of as a good starting C candidate for the Cards in ’22 and actually that includes ’21 also. His value has been trending downward and just by his age will likely not increase. If the Yankees should bid high for him during his free agency, he should go for the $$. The legacy thing in St. Louis is overrated and so is that second manager on the field idea. His off the field shinanagins are getting old and his latest conspiracy theory just adds to that category.

    We could finally get to see what exactly we have with the younger prospects especially if we can see Herrera at some point during ’21. I’m feeling that if we give Molina the two years that he wants at the salary that he is looking for it will be to the detriment of the team. I’d wish him well and move on.

    #145450
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    I’m in the boat that the Cards probably lose 2-4+ games next year that they shouldn’t by losing Yadi and going with Knizner and/or Herrera, which probably pushes them out of the playoffs. So I do think he’s a vital asset. Although I wouldn’t go so far as to say I’d give him whatever he wants.

    #145718
    Avatar1982 willie
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    Taxi was a good defensive catcher this past season. We should try to keep him but he shouldn’t be asking for a lot at this point. If he wants too much, let him go though I don’t think we have a catcher defensively close to him so proceed at ones peril. Far as smoltz saying that he prefers offensive catcher to defensive one. He wouldnt say that if the winning run scored on him cause the catcher couldn’t keep the ball from getting away from him after he threw a pitch. Funny how defense isn’t prioritized or talked about til a play isn’t made. If dodgers had played better defense in game 5, maybe they are world champions right now.

    #145719
    Avatar1982 willie
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    I meant yadi not taxi, what the heck, damn spelling check.

    #145724
    Avatarmudville
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    I agree that losing Yadi is likely to cost this team, at the very least, two games. I’d like to see him back but not for more than a year at a time, and not for $20M. I don’t know what the appropriate amount would be, but if it’s over $5M, I think they should pass. Also, I’d want him back to help transition to our next catcher, whether that’s Knizner or Herrera or Rodriguez or Pages. I do not want to spend the next two years feeding Yadi’s ego while waiting for Father Time to make the decision that Yadi ought to make himself. I’d be even more motivated to let Yadi walk if I thought they were going to spend the payroll savings on Lindor. (I get it that Seager and others might be available after 2021, but Lindor is my personal preference.)

    #145726
    AvatarPugsleyAddams
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    The man still has game. So pay the man. Don’t go crazy, but pay the man, as he’s earned it. Until Herrera ( and he will be the new man ) is ready to go, you have no other choice. Part ways with Yadi and it’ll come back to bite us big time.

    And Willie’s “Taxi” reference was not all that far off base, as Yadi has indeed given we Redbird fans quite a ride over the years.

    #145727
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    I agree, Pugs. I would like to see a two year deal where Knizner is the primary backup this coming year (has at least one pitcher that he catches every turn through the rotation), then Herrera in 2022 in more of a true split of time, so that we get a look at both guys to see if we need to go outside for a starter or backup C. I feel confident that Knizner should hit well enough to remain on the roster in some way, shape or form. He just may not be a starting catcher, defensively. Perhaps when we get robot umps.

    #145740
    Avatargscottar
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    I would like to see a two year deal where Knizner is the primary backup this coming year

    To me this should be mandatory. Having Knizner withering away in roster limbo the last two years while doing nothing has been very irritating to me. No more Wieters!

    #145763
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    One thing that is problematic looking ahead is that the bench guys who can hit left are both free agents – Wieters (switch hitter) and Miller.

    This has nothing to do with re-signing Molina, but it does affect the backup perhaps, If rosters go back to 26 as expected, where is your LH hitting among your five bench spots? And where is it easiest to add an external LHH to the roster without impacting other positions?

    My broader point is these decisions have impacts in other places that have to be considered, too…

    #145764
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    I vote Carp and Fowler for LH bench bats 🙂

    #145765
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    BOOM! Problem solved!

    #145770
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    I’m with you, jj. Lol. Neither of those two guys is gonna do much better than a 100 OPS+ next year. Limit the damage and hope they can SSS their way to a good year against RHP only.

    #145772
    Avatargscottar
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    LH bench bat?? Schrock power!!

    #145773
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    I have written a bit about this. Platooning has been used very successfully by the Rays, which is a big reason they have done so well on such a small payroll.

    Having a 28-man roster really helped. This is another thing not decided for 2021, but odds are that to save $$, the owners will want to be at 26. That means the makeup of your five reserves will be very important. Teams not only have to cover defensive backups but also RHH/LHH, not just generically, but by the platooned positions.

    So back to this thread, a LHH hitting catcher would be a good compliment to Molina.

    #145781
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    I think you are generalizing handedness too much BW, when the focus should be having a backup catcher who hits RHP’s well, because Yadi hits LHP’s best.

    Knizner has always shown reverse splits, best vs RHP’s, and the only question for me is if he hits them well enough to be a backup at MLB. Wieters hasn’t hit RHP’s well in a long time, so if he’s the bar, Knizner should be a candidate.

    How well Knizner will hit remains to be seen, so if the bar is higher than Wieters, we need to go outside the org, but it’s still a backup role unless Yadi goes IL.

    #145783
    Avatarmspaid
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    jj:

    I like the idea of leaving Carpenter and Fowler on the bench. The only problem with your idea is that any left hander off the bench needs to be good.

    #145785
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    jj, I hadn’t dug into the numbers, but you present a good case to try a Molina-Knizner pairing.

    #145788
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    My opinion is based on Knizners minors sample sizes mostly, not his 75 MLB PA’s.

    2019 all levels: .824 vs RH, .661 vs LH
    2018: .826 vs RH, .721 vs LH
    2017: .787 vs RH, .931 vs LH
    2016: .932 vs RH, .866 vs LH

    I have them right here so I’m sharing them. Early on he hit both well, then in 18′ & 19′ better vs RH. Hopefully he hits both well, but today he appears to best vs RHP’s, overall.

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