Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors – 2021

Home The Cardinal Nation Forums Open Forum Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors – 2021

Viewing 25 posts - 201 through 225 (of 531 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #153586
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Supposedly the Mets actually made a higher offer for Bauer but he chose LA anyway. I think that is his hometown.

    I wonder what this means for Justin Turner. The Dodgers may still offer him 1 or 2 years but I doubt they give him what he is looking for. He will have to choose between taking less money to stay with them or taking more money elsewhere.

    #153587
    jj-cf-stl
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Turner: Evidently the Mets have budget space left as a finalist on Bauer. Mets currently have JD Davis at 3B, who actually needs to be a corner OF’r. Turner to Mets wouldn’t surprise me.

    Davis as a recent trade target by me, now fits our roster better as a LF’r, with Nado at 3B.

    #153591
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I agree with all of that JJ.

    #153597
    stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    #153609
    jj-cf-stl
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Did the Braves just sign their version of our Fowler contract?

    #153614
    nbr1hawkeye
    Participant

    Free

    JANUARY 12, 7:23pm: A rival executive told Mark Feinsand of MLB.com that he will be “shocked” if the Red Sox don’t trade Benintendi before the end of the weekend.

    4:26pm: The Red Sox have discussed Benintendi with more teams than the ones mentioned below, Alex Speier of the Boston Globe reports. One of those clubs “has discussed trading big-league pitching depth for Benintendi,” Speier writes.

    I discussed trading for Benintendi over on the Dexter Fowler traded thread and one poster thought I was trolling.

    This article suggests that a team with MLB pitching depth had entered the market for benintendi. What team has MLB pitching depth and needs an outfielder? I think it’s the Cardinals.

    I suggested CM or JF. The reason is CM has a large contract and JF’s contract is going to get big in a hurry. In fact, he is probably going to take the cardinals to arbitration and I don’t think we will be able to sign him to a long term deal.

    Benintendi is a 2nd year arb player (with 2 years of eligibility remaining). He had a bad year last year which is why he is available. I think it makes sense to trade Flaherty for Benintendi. But if Boston prefers Martinez, by all means Trade him for Benintendi instead.

    These deals are not meant to be straight-up deals. I will leave the final details up to the Cardinals to figure out, but for the poster who thought I was trolling, I am not.

    This also ezplains why the Cards are after Odorizzi.

    #153618
    stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Flaherty is controlled for three years no matter what. He’s one of the best pitchers in the game and is only 25 years old. I understand that some may be terrified that he will leave after 2023 but there is no reason to trade him for an OK (and nothing more) outfielder. There are very few players I would trade Jack Flaherty for at this point. His trade value is massive and probably would require a very good player in addition to Benintendi coming back to St Louis.

    A close trade for the two including both Benintendi and Flaherty could look like (trade values in parentheses):

    Sox get: Flaherty ($85.2M)

    Cards get: Benintendi ($4.6M), Rafael Devers ($55.3M), Jeter Downs (their top prospect, $21.3M)

    I doubt either team would want to do that. Carlos has negative value so unless the Sox thought he was a good bounce back candidate, I don’t see that either.

    #153620
    LACardFan
    Participant

    Free

    Yes, we’re scoffing at the idea of trading Flaherty for Benitendi because Flaherty is worth more than Benitendi.

    Flaherty will make either $3 million or $3.9 million this year. You don’t trade him because you think he will be making $35 million in three years. If he commands $35 million in three years, you’ve more than gotten your value out of him.

    And that is Flaherty’s point of contention. It is not with the Cardinals, it is with how young players are underpaid relative to their value.

    #153631
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    More than anyone here I would love to get Benintendi but no way would I send Flaherty in the deal. That is insane. A more reasonable package would be O’Neill, Elledge, and Pallante.

    #153634
    stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I wouldn’t trade O’Neill for Benintendi straight up. I would give them Justin Williams and a “You’re Welcome” note for taking $6+ million off their hands.

    O’Neill: 3.3 WAR/650 PA, league minimum
    Benintendi: 3.4 WAR/650 PA, $6.6M

    #153637
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    The trade simulator has O’Neill’s and Benintendi’s value almost even. I would throw in one or two middling pitching pieces due to Benintendi’s more proven history as a producer.

    #153639
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    #153641
    LACardFan
    Participant

    Free

    Andrew Benitendi WAR by Season
    2016: 0.8 (118 PA)
    2017: 2.9 (658 PA)
    2018: 4.5 (661 PA)
    2019: 1.8 (615 PA)
    2020: -0.2 (52 PA)

    Tyler O’Neil WAR by Season
    2018: 1.2 (142 PA)
    2019: 0.2 (151 PA)
    2020: 0.8 (157 PA)

    In 2018, given the same amount of AB’s, O’Neill would have outperformed Benitendi. He did outperform Benitendi last year. And while Benitendi outperformed O’Neill in 2019, a 1.8 WAR over 615 PAs is not anything to get excited about.

    #153645
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Shoulda, woulda, coulda. There is a reason Tyler hasn’t obtained the PA’s to boost his WAR. Injuries, strike out rates, and a roster logjam among them. He has no more excuses this year.

    #153647
    stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Where would Benintendi hit in this lineup? He doesn’t have much power and his OBP isn’t that good either. #6/7? He’s not much of a defender either. LF?

    2B Edman
    RF Carlson
    1B Goldy
    3B Arenado
    SS Dejong
    LF Benintendi
    C Yadi
    CF Bader

    Carp at 6 if DH.

    #153652
    LACardFan
    Participant

    Free

    There is a reason Tyler hasn’t obtained the PA’s to boost his WAR. Injuries, strike out rates, and a roster logjam among them.

    Yeah – he had Ozuna blocking him in 2018 & 2019.

    #153653
    LACardFan
    Participant

    Free

    Shoulda, woulda, coulda.

    Funny how you throw out objectivity when you have an inherent bias.

    #153661
    nbr1hawkeye
    Participant

    Free

    LaCardFan

    Funny how you throw out a conditional statement without stating the condition. You stated that O’Neal would have beat Benintendi in 2018 if he had the same number of plate appearances. But he would have had to continue at the same rate to do it. There is no guarantee of that.

    2020 was a injury year for Benintendi, which makes him available at a discount. Jack Flaherty has 3 years of control but they will not be cheap. The last year of control is likely to cost us %20M+ assuming Flaherty pitches well over the next 2 years.

    The Cardinals don’t like to have their payroll structure questioned, (plus they have a boatload of pitching) so I think that they may trade him for an outfielder who has some known upside.

    They may have assured themselves a Divisional Championship by acquiring Arenado, but I doubt they get anywhere in the post season with O’neal, Bader, Carlson, Thomas, and Williams roaming the outfield. I hope I am wrong but with the likes of San Diego, Los Angelos, New York, Philadelphia. and Atlanta I just don’t see it.

    I know I can’t change your mind, so we will just have to see how it all plays out.

    #153666
    stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    nbr1hawkeye…Benintendi is a decent ballplayer, no doubt. And he will come at a discount, that is true. I think you aren’t quite grasping the difference in value between he and Flaherty. There’s a site that compares potential trades between teams (LINK HERE) that gives us a good idea of what is known as the “surplus value” of different players as to what is left remaining on their contract. Jack Flaherty is at $85.2 million surplus, meaning even if he’s making $20+ million in year three, the sum of his expected value to the Cards minus his expected pay is $85.M. Benintendi is at $4.6M surplus. That’s a massive gulf that the Red Sox would have to cross to match up with the Cardinals.

    Also, it should be noted that the Cards have very little money committed for 2022 and 2023 at this point. Payroll in years leading up to 2020 was approaching $170M. With the players dropping off after this year and even adding Arenado, the Cards have around $85-90M committed to players for those years. Adding in arbitration costs, the team will have plenty of money to pay Flaherty until he becomes a free agent.

    If the Cards were to trade Flaherty now, they could command a king’s ransom (likely a top 10 prospect in baseball plus other prospects). That said, for a contender to trade its best pitcher would be a head scratcher. Getting a decent but not great player like Benintendi back would be one of the more lop sided trades we have ever seen.

    #153704
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Is this their true CF?

    #153705
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    LA, I like Benintendi but that has nothing to do if O’Neill has produced or not. He hasn’t.

    Trying to extrapolate his WAR based on the PA’s he could have or should have received is irrelevant. This is a bottom line business. Potential doesn’t feed the bulldog.

    I hope Tyler has a monster year but he still hasn’t proven he is any more than Randal Grichuk.

    #153708
    GameCard
    Participant

    Free

    Is Benintendi for Carlos Martinez a real possibility?

    #153712
    jj-cf-stl
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Almora: More like a late inning D replacement
    Turner: WAS has Kieboom but if Turner would come down on his desire for a 4yr contract, WAS might be interested.

    #153718
    forsch31
    Participant

    Free

    Talk on MLB on XM is that the Brewers would be a good fit for Turner.

    #153720
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Is Benintendi for Carlos Martinez a real possibility?

    I don’t think the Red Sox would do that deal straight up. The Cardinals would have to sweeten the pot. But the idea has potential.

Viewing 25 posts - 201 through 225 (of 531 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

First-hand news and commentary on the St. Louis Cardinals™ and minor league system for over 20 years