March 13, 2019 at 9:16 am #83829
I think you are right on Giles…losing Gyorko one of the rotation depth guys and even one young outfielder or depth reliever isnt bad
What do you think about Stroman though?
Helsley + Mendoza + Baker
That’s a lot of control and upside for 3years of Stroman IMO. Who has not been a true ace for a while.March 13, 2019 at 12:22 pm #83840
I’m not sure about Stroman. I mean he would be worth a discussion to see what the asking price is. He kind of reminds me of Wacha. But if I had to choose between beefing up the rotation or the bullpen I would choose the bullpen. We seem to have a plethora of rotation options right now although I know the old adage of you can’t have enough. It just seems to me that having a dominant bullpen is very trendy right now and for good reason. If you can shorten games to 5 or 6 innings then do it.March 13, 2019 at 2:47 pm #83845
But to me Stroman DOES make the bullpen better, if not A LOT better
slotting a more dependable pitcher into the rotation means moving out someone…probably Hudson at the moment…but even if he goes to AAA to await Waino running out of gas it still works well for us …he obviously was a major consideration for the pen
it also allows for Carlos to go to the pen if wanted or necessary, add in same with Reyes..
you could conceivably have a rotation and bullpen late in the year of:
Mik, Jack, Wach, Stro, Waino
(with Giles too) Giles, Hicks, Miller, Carlos, Reyes, Hudson, Brebbia, Genesis (or traded for better lefty) (remove Giles add Helsley)
That is a nasty bullpen, and dropping Waino for the playoff 4 man still looks great
Even if Waino or anyone can only go 3-4 innings, that kind of bullpen could do whatever we want
You easily have 9 innings of ace level guys in the pen without even trying
To do this this though you need a more dependable Stroman type though IMO…
having one iffy spot in the rotation is fine Waino)
but two makes me worry about it
a Keuchel 2yr deal plus a gyorko Giles trade woudl work too…i just like the Stroman Giles combo as I think there is something there…even if it means losing a few folksMarch 13, 2019 at 3:22 pm #83848
It would be an extremely bold move two weeks from Opening Day for any team to trade away its no. 1 starter and its closer. That would be a really tough sell to the fan base. (And yes, Stroman is their no. 1. He was named their Opening Day starter today.)
P.S. I guess the Jays could turn around and ante up to sign Keuchel and Kimbrel to replace them. After all, it’s only money!March 14, 2019 at 7:52 am #83881
I agree it would be odd if not extremely unlikely to impossible, BUT we have seen relatively early season trades from time to time…even if not on this scale
nevertheless, with the remaining big name FAs still out there and the Cubs closer situation in limbo, even big name starters like KErshaw on the mend or hurting…i can’t say anything wouldnt be possible
True Stroman is their #1 and Giles is their closer, but how many weeks until they are already out of the chance for the East and having a great shot once a week from a starter and whenever they can get to the closer might start feeling like a luxury rather than an asset for the future
I actually think the Jays would be better suited by bringing up the best kids now and playing them now, use the rest to depth play or find a few relievers, sign Keuchel…and go for it
They feel like they are right there on the edge of going somewhere like the BRaves felt a couple years ago….instead of waiting another year…just dive in with the young talent
The deals i talk about are a bit much at any time of the year though so that is why they are here…March 14, 2019 at 8:12 am #83889
I could see Stroman being a trade candidate in July because the Jays will be 20 games out of first by then and they won’t be in the wild card race either. Stroman and Bumgarner could both be on the block in July. Maybe the Cardinals will have interest then who knows?
I think the wild card right now is Kimbrel. Someone is going to sign this guy right? There was an article the other day stating that Kimbrel may wait until after the draft to sign because he wouldn’t have draft pick compensation attached to him then. That seems a bit drastic to me.March 14, 2019 at 8:29 am #83893
I haven’t seen anyone else say this, but I am wondering if teams are wary of Kimbrel because of the Holland mess with the Cardinals last spring. I doubt this is the primary concern, with years and money likely the main hangup.
Stroman still has two more years before free agency. I would think he would be a better trade candidate in July 2020. JMO, but I still see the rotation as the strength of this Cardinals team, but that could change by July.March 14, 2019 at 8:45 am #83897
Saw Sipp signed a deal for about 1.25million..and mutual for 2020 at 2.5
he was pretty good and a nice ERA…. solid lefty for a while
i know we have a bunch of candidates..and Shreve and Cecil can’t go anywhere… BUT if Cecil was 1.25m more and we got Sipps production i would be fine with it
Then you drop Cecil, and eat the money, let him start his comeback somewhere else…and still get quality lefty production out of Sipp without the damage feeling too major…
Shreve you start up in the bigs and see how it goes, same position he is in now IMO…he is borderline and there are other below him that are good enough to fill in behind a good lefty like Sipp (or if Cecil was good Cecil)March 14, 2019 at 8:48 am #83898
also…i think you are right on the apprehension tied to Kimbrel (and even Keuchel at this point…look at the late signing SPs performances last year like Cobb)March 20, 2019 at 8:35 am #84254CariocaCardinalParticipantPaid - Monthly
Ian Kennedy to the Royals pen most likely guarantees Chris Ellis being returned to the Cardinals.March 20, 2019 at 10:16 am #8426414NyquisTParticipantPaid - Annual
If Hudson claims that last rotation spot, what becomes of Gant? The bullpen is already jammed up, and now if Ellis comes back, he’ll become Gant II. Are there any teams that need a fifth starter due to injury? I usually don’t follow the other MLB teams.March 20, 2019 at 10:41 am #84270CariocaCardinalParticipantPaid - Monthly
Gant stays in the bullpen. Ellis can be sent to the minors.March 20, 2019 at 12:58 pm #84272
I think Gant could bring back a lower level prospect of decent value.
Plenty of teams could use a #5 or #6 man (Royals, Jays, SD, BAL, plenty more)
But I think the Rays would be a good look, seeing as they are still doing the opener thing. a guy with swing status like Gant could be particularly useful for them
i think he is potentially very useful for us if we commit to using him as an RP instead of just a long man
Still…i like the Rays system, and think we could find a nice combo trade with Gant and maybe Gyorko they are a bit unsettled at 3b and 1b on the short term
I wonder who we could pry from them for those 2 especially if we eat a little Gyorko moneyMarch 20, 2019 at 2:41 pm #84283
It appears that Kimbrel is talking to the Brewers. If they were to pull that off talk about a killer bullpen.March 21, 2019 at 8:52 am #84321
true…but JEffress is on the mend and Knebel is reportedly taking time off from throwing…whatever that means
Hader is a beast…and if they add Kimbrel him too….but Jeffress and Knebel would make it killer and if they are question marks I am not AS worried about them
it does make you curious which would be better us or them everyone healthy (and assigned to this role). they are surprisingly similar
Kimbrel, Knebel, Hader, Jeffress
CMart, Hicks, Miller, ReyesMarch 21, 2019 at 8:56 am #84323
If healthy those two bullpens could rival anyone’s, even the vaunted Yankees pen.March 21, 2019 at 9:45 am #84328
that Yanks pen healthy is nasty indeed
Chapman, Britton, Betances, Ottavino
that is 4 closers…good ones
Green is no slouch either
I wonder if this model is sustainable though…or if it becomes the norm and players are groomed veen more so than recently for these mega bullpen roles
it isnt like we arent already seeing it, i just wonder if they start IDing these guys earlierMarch 21, 2019 at 3:41 pm #84346
Super pens seem to be the trend. That is one of the big reasons we are going to 26 man rosters next year. Everyone has to have those eight relievers.March 26, 2019 at 7:54 am #84695
The extension epidemic continues…
Ace Jacob deGrom and the New York Mets are in agreement on a five-year, $137.5 million contract extension, league sources tell ESPN.
— Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) March 26, 2019March 26, 2019 at 8:39 am #84702stlcard25ParticipantPaid - Annual
Good move for DeGrom. He’ll be 31 this year and 30+ pitchers don’t have a great track record in free agency. He’s set up now with the Mets carrying all the risk.April 3, 2019 at 9:38 am #85630Cardinals27ParticipantPaid - Annual
I know he is out until the end of April, but if healthy, Danny Duffy might be had for a reasonable price and the Royals might eat some of his 3 years salary remaining on his contract. I think we need a lefty starter. Plus Duffy’s numbers might get a bump pitching in the NL. He might be trade deadline possibility.April 3, 2019 at 1:31 pm #85657
I always liked Duffy…I am not sure the FO Will be willing to accept they NEED another starter though so i doubt we see any kind of movement on this
In fact the only chance i see for meaningful change to the team being in an outside bullpen addition
everywhere it seems there is too much ego on the line
-C, 1b, 2b, SS, 3b…not movement at all…even if they are slumping….they wont move or give up on them due to contracts and reputations
-LF and RF are money issues and ego issues relating to IF they move them or sit them or whatever it will prove the FO made bad decisions, they dont seem willing to accept that very often
-CF…MAYbe potential for movement, but they invested so much in the “defense mattes more than anything else” aspect of BAder and then [plastered BAder’s face all over everything in the offseason and had him model everything makes me doubt he gets moved even to the bench
-Mik-no movement even if he struggles, decision and money
-Jack-if he struggles jsut “growing pains”
-Hudson, Waino-move to pen replace with Gant, PDL, Gomb, Reyes, CMArt
-Wacha- MAYBE moved at deadline if we are out of it BUR no outside replacement, woudl be internal Gant,PDL,Gomb, Reyes, CMArt
-manager and staff isnt going anywhere no matter the struggles, excuses about giving it time and players are the ones not playign and injuries will be used as scapegoats….no way they give up on Shildt or anythign about him after they handed him that extensions after almost no track record of success…you might see a late season movement of ALbert if they keep struggling, but he woudlnt be fired just shifted to anew role or somethign like it
-Bench-Knizner, Edman, Garcia, Randy, Lane, Urias, SOsa fill any needs there…no outside help
Gyorko being moved is about all that MIGHT happen…but i doubt it would be to bring in anythign to help, instead it woudl be for minor leaguers
-Bullpen has the only real potential of outside additions…but it wont be for a closer as CMart, Reyes will be used as insurance for Hicks and Miller failings…not to mention metrics on BRebbia and Leone i would guess to be touted as better options, not to mention Helsley as Rosy 2.0
best shot is a deadline deal for a lefty reliever, but that woudl happen only after Webb Genesis and probably Layne would have to fail
So without a total demise of the team we wont see any potential significant changes to the team from outside a subtraction of players being replaced internally or at most a lefty reliever from outside probably as result of prospect for player exchange near the deadline…and only if we are close in the standings…
major trades or signings seem almost impossible with the current makeup of the team…unless total self destruction or conversely any MAJOR catastrophic injuries that coincide with a playoff run
i will continue to post ideas about deals but this year more than any other i cant see any potential of it happening as no one wants egg on their face for making bad decisions
I would like to be wrong…id like to hope they woudl identify the weaknesses early, then identify what has value and find a way to make solid moves NOW so we can compete now…April 3, 2019 at 1:32 pm #85658
I know he is out until the end of April, but if healthy, Danny Duffy might be had for a reasonable price and the Royals might eat some of his 3 years salary remaining on his contract. I think we need a lefty starter. Plus Duffy’s numbers might get a bump pitching in the NL. He might be trade deadline possibility.
Let’s just wait and get Madbum in July.April 3, 2019 at 1:36 pm #85659
Jager, I tend to agree with what you are saying here. This FO in recent years has been very quiet at the trade deadline and I see this year being no different. While I would like to see us get someone like Madbum that doesn’t mean I think it will probably happen. We are going to sink or swim with what we have.
April 3, 2019 at 2:15 pm #85661
- This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by gscottar.
I have to disagree with you, gscottar. Actually, the Cards have been quite busy in July in recent years. However, the trades were mostly moving guys out for prospects.
2018 – They dealt away their no. 2 hitter and starting CF, among other trades.
2017 – They traded away a veteran member of the starting rotation.
Perhaps if they are in contention and need a boost this year, they will be a buyer rather than a seller. I do not believe one can speak with certainly about this year. After three years of misses, I think there has to be a greater sense of urgency or someone will have to take the fall.
P.S. All the words we read about them being neither a buyer nor a seller were total BS, yet some believed it.
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