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Starting point, didn’t have time on break to try and balance it out. I like those rabbits, like bader and hampson.
Gyorko and one of Webb, Shreve or Mayers
for
Hampson and DunnCol has Jedd for 1mil, because Dunn is a dead contract. We release Dunn or 60day DL (shoulder).
Pena C
Martinez DH/PH/OF
Munoz 3B/OF
Hampson 2B/SSI still dont think that is enough for all the control and upside of Hampson
He is their #4 prospect at a position thhey might be looking to fill very soon…
I think you have to give up control on an upside player too…if not overpay
but i do think maybe matching one of their bad contracts is not a bad way to look either…i wouldnt want Dunn, but i understand why you put him in…but he has to be on the 40man until opening day so roster spot is an issue
they paid big money for Davis, Shaw and McGee last offseason and McGee and Shaw stunk it up at 8.5mil per guy…
that is pretty close to the Gyorko money at 8mil
maybe we take on Shaw or McGee (probably McGee who only has an option triggered by appearances for 2021 as opposed to sHaw who is signed to 2021…
it is a risky move to drop 1yr of Gyorko for 2-3 years of a reliever… BUT both guys have been very effective in the past, and COL has a way of inflating numbers…
and if we took on that risk for a couple years…perhaps a decent young pitcher and a Shreve, Mayers, Webb might be enough to pry Hampson away for cheaper
Hampson + Shaw
for
Gyorko + Ponce + ShreveI am not a big fan of taking on bad relievers, but i do think Shaw and McGee are not as bad as they may have seemed last year, and Hampson is a big time prospect
Taking on essential 18-25Million+ and handing them a couple decent young pitchers might be enough to pry him away and stlil give us back somethign of use along with Hampson
Shaws road numbers were poor last season too (122 ops+ allowed). I shyed away from the multi yr relievers.
Jedd turns Dunns lost? 7mil into a short term starter at 2B who could post 3war. That has significant value for Col and they only add 1mil.
I’d rather not spend on their relievers. I have hopes Goldy and Mikolas get extended.
Responding to the lack of middle infielders in the organization at the A levels and lower, I checked around the other teams for young shortstop prospects that hit from the left side or were switch hitters. I also took into account the number of other solid SSs in their organizations.
I used the MLB list of team’s prospects and noted their ranking, age and arrival years. Not in order of preference. Note: STL’s only middle infielder below AAA, repeat below AAA that ranked in our top-50 was Perez #35.
Jean Carmona 19 – BAL #14 – 2021 – SH
Brayan Rocchio 18 – CLE #11 – 2021 – SH
Luis Rengifo 22 – LAA #10 – 2020 – SH
Gavin Lux 21 – LAD #4 – 2020 – LH
Jose Devers 19 – MIA #13 – 2021 – LH
Shervyn Newton 19 – NYM #14 – 2022 – SH
Arquimedes Gaboa 21 – PHI#11 – 2020 – SH
Xavier Edwards 19 – SD#18 – 2020 – SH
Luis Garcia 18 – WAS#3 – 2021 – LHWe might try prying one or two of these guys away as part of bigger trades.
Please keep them in mind. I’m losing sleep over this lack of young solid SSs situation.
I dont want to add Shaw or McGee’s contracts and last year’s performances either
but you wanted Hampson and I used taking them on as a means to get such a highly rated prospect
Dunn is 7million of waste for us, but Gyorko for them ADDS money to their payroll…then you want to throw in a middling relief prospect and then ask for a top 5 prospect in their system?
I just dont see that as even getting any traction without us offering up way more value.
All I proposed was that if we used our money available and desire for another reliever to get the price to come down. Us taking on such a large dollar amount i think would get their attention. That we would also offer a Gyorko level player as well as a pitcher or two and you could see a good prospect come back our way
at the moment we would be giving up almost nothing (Gyorko has value but when compared to the ready to play Hampson who may not have the power but has the average combined with a borderline relief pitcher) and asking them to add payroll AND give up a high prospect…i dont see it
I may be offering too much with Gyorko and Ponce and Shreve and taking on the money of Shaw…but at least that would be making us have the potential to be losers in the deal, which seems to be the way all deals go down… unless both sides feel they are winning it wont happen
we COULD get a return to form Shaw…but he may sink worse…Hampson MAY never be more than a depth MI… but Gyorko is no guarantee for a great year and Shreve and POnce are no guarantees either…arguments for boths sides losing seem to be equal to both sides winning
not that i do the deal at all…just playing with the idea
i think we coudl find a better partner for Gyorko
limited depth at SS farther down
but with DeJong signed long term and Urias, Sosa, Munoz, Edman all around i am not very worried about filling out the minor leagues with young SS’s through the draft and Intl FA.
Most of our guys are on the closer side, but i think that just keeps us safe at the SS while we find some more SSs lower down
We don’t really need them for a while so if we use some earlier picks on some SS’s in the next draft or two we should be just fine
a trade for a good lower level SS would be a fine target when looking for non MLB ready returns for Gyorko or JMart…though i would imagine the fans would not be too happy in general
I get the importance of having DeJong long term. Are any of those you mentioned ready to step in as a starter, or will ever be ready for that situation? I’m not all that sure. If DeJong should be injured or moved to 3B at any point we’ll need some SS coverage. Its always good to have reasonable coverage. My MO is to think ahead.
The larger trades often include MiLBs from both sides. I would like to see a younger SS in the deal.
just read bout BRewers and Giants for Bumgarner…they would want a young starting pitcher back (list some good young ones like Burnes, Woodruff, Peralta as the kinds)
I think we could match them for young pitching in quantity definitely but also quality if we wanted
Bumgarner is a tipping point impact addition to this team…and worth the gamble
Goldy, Miller, Bumgarner checks a lot of boxes
i also think Bumgarner is the type that could be convinced to stay early if we treated him right
a younger SS would be fine in a deal…but DeJong moving to 3b probably is like 4-5 years away…that is plenty of time to find a SS or for one to reveal himself…we can draft some higher level ones too over the course of the next few years
as for stepping in… i think Urias is a lot better than we were thinking when we got him, i think he is breaking out and it could put some pressure on Wong as well as the depth TUIL types …and Munoz showed he can play at SS… Edman and Sosa both have their value as well…and FA also has plenty of options every year to fill the gap if we are lacking
I am happy with targeting a young SS (i personally like Lux but think he may cost more than Gyorko or JMart)…to be farther down and getting better
but…i am not too worried about young player voids at the lower levels as the draft especially can help compensate and Intl scouts find youngsters too
i personally would feel alot better about it if Perez would just have a good year
People might be shocked at how seemlessly Edman could slide in at short for a month or two sparking the team.
Edman will have to fight through three guys ahead of him already on the 40-man in Munoz, Sosa and Urias. Though Urias is more 2B, he might get a shot at short as a fill in, especially if he continues to hit. This will be a big year for Edman at Memphis.
Good call on Gil Brian…i was a little down on that pick last year and i think it made me forget about him a bit
i still think Urias has enough for SS…but with DeJong cemented I dont think it will come to that as Munoz IMO is the backup right now….
Still, if I was Wong I would have my head on a swivel with all the 2b options that are threatening him…including potentially Carp for 2020 if we tried to go after Arenado or Rendon and re-sign Goldy
Urias, Munoz, Robinson, Edman, Sosa, Schrock even….all could grow leaps this next year
Kolton is ONLY signed through 2020…with a 2021 option (and he isnt cheap either)
…as much as we need a solid backup SS and future SS long down the road, i think 2b is the more pressing solution we need to be looking intoComing off an 88 ops+ season, reports are Dozier signs for 9mil with the Nats. BR gives him one war for last season over 632 PA’s.
Doziers 9mil also matches Gyorko’s 8mil and 1mil buyout for next season, that stl or an acquiring club is responsible for. Jedd tallied 2 brWAR over 402 PA’s and a 108 ops+.
I disagree. Andy Young is behind Urias and Schrock for me personally. I would put Edman over him too. Kind of a moot point with Wong and Munoz on the depth charts as well.
Would anyone go for a Panik + Bumgarner trade?
Involve Gyorko some money and a couple of young pitchers?
Then find a trade partner for Wong? OR go with Wong on the bench and platoon Panik and Wong?
Free agent infielder Jed Lowrie is in agreement with the New York Mets on a two-year deal, league sources tell ESPN.
— Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) January 10, 2019
Young’s ability to hit for power and his Fall League play put him ahead of the ones mentioned on nearly every list put out before the trade. I would have liked to see his potential rating from Brian for ’19 but he eliminated those traded before he put out the potential analysis.
I would love to get Panik but Wong probably will start there, he already made it clear he is much happier starting and feels he is a starter and not a bench player. He’s temperamental and his defense is a plus.
I’d stay away from Bumgarner (age). I think that the FO feels that we have enough starters and some still improving (Gomber and Hudson). Wainwright will fill out the rotation out of Spring training.
14NyquisT said:
I would have liked to see his potential rating from Brian for ’19…
All you had to do was ask. I had ranked Edman and Young 19th and 20th, respectively on my own list. Young’s scouting grade would have been 4.5 medium. He is a better hitter, but Edman is a better runner, defender and is more versatile.
Bumgarner is only 29…and only under contract for 1yr paying too much for one year is an issue, but he is still dominant and we are still without a lefty starter
It’s all very similar to Goldy…except Bumgarner is younger…
Extending Bumgarner after the year woudln’t be terrible but would be dependent on results this year
the way ll the contracts are lining up…it sure looks like we are in WIN NOW mode…and not being tied to whomever helps us WIN NOW seems what the FO is going for
I’d try Gyorko and JMArt Ponce and Woodford and 4mil (gomber, gant, gingery are all on the table too)
for Bumgarner and Panikwe give up a lot of control years of MLB level players to SF..and make Gyorko cheap enough to entice
Panik is cheap-ish and complements Wong, and we could transition to Panik if we want to not pick up Wong after 2020…and it allows us to platoon for lefties or righties
guarantee that Wong is the “good” Wong we want is far from a non concern…even with youngsters who might be able to fill in
Pena, Panik/Wong, Oneill, Munoz
Bumgarner forces Waino to the bullpen depending on injuries that may happen…but also may really put the pressure on Wacha to hold his spot comepting with Waino
Waino and Wacha battling for the 5 spot makes me feel better than the unknown of WAcha and Waino being solidified into the rotation
i dunno
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