February 26, 2019 at 1:26 pm #82824
This agent is far from a “bad boy”. Just the opposite, IMO, as these players did not leave their teams via free agency. Most of these teams’ fans would probably call him a “good boy”. I bet Rockies’ fans are delighted with the Arenado news. This is a major contrast with Boras, as his guys rarely sign extensions early.February 26, 2019 at 3:50 pm #82844OnyxgemParticipantFree
There was a zero percent chance the cards would have given Arenado anywhere near that much anyway they to cheap to sign super stars!February 27, 2019 at 9:10 am #82929
With the JMart and Mikolas deals done who will get the next extension? Goldy??? Can they extend him before opening day? Would 5 years $140M get it done?February 27, 2019 at 9:20 am #82931NJ315Participant
To sign Goldy now they will have to overpay some. Not saying is bad or good that they do that. He got burned with his first contract and that was his fault but he has one last chance to get paid and this is it. He would have to be overwhelmed by the offer not to test the FA market. Just my opinion but I haven’t read anything from his side that he is looking for a deal now.February 27, 2019 at 9:39 am #8293214NyquisTParticipantPaid - Annual
NJ…. that’s this whole Goldschmidt scenario in a nutshell. IMOFebruary 27, 2019 at 11:21 am #82938stlcard25ParticipantPaid - Annual
To sign Goldy now they will have to overpay some. Not saying is bad or good that they do that. He got burned with his first contract and that was his fault but he has one last chance to get paid and this is it. He would have to be overwhelmed by the offer not to test the FA market. Just my opinion but I haven’t read anything from his side that he is looking for a deal now.
While he might not have mentioned it, one need only to look at the case of a guy like Josh Donaldson as a cautionary tale for a player like Goldy. His injury riddled 2018 cost him probably $100 million or more guaranteed and may cost him that in reality if he doesn’t bounce back this year.
If the Cards offer something competitive, he’d be a fool not to seriously consider the deal. I do think we will see more Arenado type contracts happening with the mid market clubs to try to benefit both team and player.February 27, 2019 at 1:18 pm #82944mudvilleParticipantPaid - Annual
With injuries to both Jed Lowrie and Todd Frazier, the Mets could become a trade partner for some combination of Gyorko, Munoz, Schrock ……..February 27, 2019 at 1:50 pm #82950
Gyorko would be the only one of that three who should be considered in trade at this time, IMO. The other two (Munoz, Schrock) can remain as depth in the minors if they don’t make the team.February 27, 2019 at 2:02 pm #82954
I tend to disagree with the thoughts on the Goldy extension. I think he is very likely to sign one soon. The reason is the players are seeing that free agency is far from a slam dunk anymore. Even if you end up getting the money do you want to put yourself and your family through the meat grinder for several months to get it done? Arenado saw what was going on and wisely re-signed with the Rockies. I predict Goldy will follow that path also. I’m not saying the Cardinals will get a discount but I don’t foresee a massive overpay either. I think 5/140 will be close.February 27, 2019 at 2:06 pm #82955
I’d be surprised by a quick deal for multiple reasons. But the reality is that we know so little about Goldy’s decision criteria that anything is possible. Not only are there the on-field aspects, but how about his family and the city? He hasn’t played even one home game there yet.February 27, 2019 at 2:12 pm #82956
You are probably correct that we are unlikely to see an extension before opening day. I will put my prediction at signing before June 1 assuming that he doesn’t mind negotiating during the season.February 28, 2019 at 10:15 am #83021
I should also add that not only has the deep freeze in the free agent market made players re-think their options it is obvious that Cardinal management is making Goldschmidt a HIGH priority. They aren’t trying to hide that fact. It has been my observation over the years that when the front office really wants to re-sign someone they make it happen. A lot of us tend to think the Cardinals are overly frugal (they are) but they will open the checkbook to keep their current players. They just usually don’t like to spend on players outside the system. They also know that giving up 3 prospects and a draft pick and only keeping a guy for one year is a bad look. The more I think about it I will peg the chances of a Goldy extension at 75%.
Edit: I should probably move this to the Goldy thread.
February 28, 2019 at 5:22 pm #83092
- This reply was modified 9 months, 1 week ago by gscottar.
Deep freeze? 4 of the top 60 FA’s remain unsigned, and I’ll bet the farm that next years Q-offer continues to rise.
Been a good winter for players unless you’ve priced yourself out of the market.
I expect Goldy to play the market next winter but i like our chances. Hope you’re right and I’m wrong.March 1, 2019 at 12:29 pm #83108
The superstars are always going to get paid. It is the middle class of free agents that are getting squeezed in my opinion. Two that come to mind are Moustakas and Adam Jones. Of course timing plays into that as well. As I mentioned in a different thread I would seek a deal early in the offseason if I were a player instead of slow playing it.
Also, the pace of free agency seems to be glacial compared to the past. Again we may never know the true reasons for that. Could be many reasons. Sometimes the players/ agents drag their feet and sometimes the owners just try to wait the players out until they get desperate.
My point about Goldy is that is he the kind of guy that would want to drag his family through this for four months? I don’t know the answer to that but I suspect we will see more and more players decide it is better to re-sign with their current team.March 1, 2019 at 4:38 pm #83133
It almost always comes down to the $. At least Berkman was honest about it. That’s why I expect Goldy to take his turn at free agency. Now if stl puts 5/150mil out there before next winter he may take it, because i see that as a best case.
I realize the markets pace doesn’t suit many of the fans timing, but the offseason is about the players and owners. They have their business to take care of and with those kind of bucks on the line, the fans should take a backseat.March 2, 2019 at 12:52 pm #83176
From a purely business perspective I get what you are saying JJ but let’s not forget who actually makes it possible for the owners and players to play their little game of tug of war. MLB should be doing everything possible to enhance the fan’s interest in the sport instead of telling them to be quiet and go to their room.
March 2, 2019 at 2:28 pm #83187
- This reply was modified 9 months, 1 week ago by gscottar.
Almost information overload since the www sites, at least for me. We can know every time a FA sneezes, and you can tell there’s a very vocal segment of fans who know what they want, and they want it RIGHT NOW.
I don’t know if it’s an age group who can’t remember the days without much information before the actual signings. Or maybe it’s all age groups who just feel they have the right to know other peoples business before signings.
Either way their impatience seems to have gotten very extreme. I kind of miss the laid back winters, but if you want to just check in on recent news/signings, you definitely have to wade through the impatient please me now crowds comments.
I probably need to adjust better to this mindset, just doubt i can, HA!March 2, 2019 at 4:11 pm #83192
I can remember back in the 80’s going from October to April without a peep about baseball. There might be the occasional mention on a KMOX talk show at night or a days old article in the Sporting News. We didn’t know better at the time because that is all we had but I do not wish to go back to those days.March 11, 2019 at 9:47 am #83701
So i mentioned it in another thread but I think it is time for Gyorko trades to start coming up…
ONeill needs to be on the team, and has nothign to prove in the minors, and they arent putting Gyorko at SS last year or this spring… Munoz or Robinson is making the bench and that leaves no room for ONeill
Wieters, Munoz/Robinson, JMart, Oneill is a strong bench
i will miss Gyorko but his power is replaceable and his position flex is replaceable as well
I suggest a TORONTO trade, seeing Vlad go down for an extended time puts a much longer empty sureness at 3b for the Jays… Gyorko is a stronger play than Drury IMO and Gyorko still can help out at 2b with an injured Travis and unsure Gourriel…not to mention bench help obviously…. Also, Gyorko could still be a useful as a trade chip later too so there is value even as a non starter once Vlad comes up…even with Bichetter as well
I am sure we could find a couple prospects from their system to make it be worth it, and with our need for lefties still or even more options for relievers , a nice young reliever type pitcher coudl be particularly useful
NOrmally i would say they would want our ready to go young starters, but i think they are actually pretty flush with young or fringe starters…which makes me wonder if we wanted to maybe push a bit more and make a bigger deal to fix one spot we are somewhat lacking in…
either SP or backend RP….. Stroman or Giles
They dont really have any aces, but Stroman is coming off a poor year and maybe we can get him for less value
They also dont have much of a backend, but are they really needing that Giles type of closer on such a team?
We would need to offer more than Gyorko, but I think Stroman could be a great fit into the rotation and/or Giles to the pen
I’d love to combo and get both but i could see 3 types of deals
Gyorko + for Stroman or Giles
Gyorko + for Stroman and Giles
Gyorko for minor league talent
The last option being the most likely and EASY, but i like the idea of trying to find a way to make the team better with some more established players so i will try a Stromand and Giles for Gyorko deal
Stroman + Giles
Gyorko (as described above)
Helsley (back end help with option for starting still)
Poncedeleon or Gomber rotation or relieving help
Mayers (help with mid to backend)
L. Baker (longer term power 1b/DH for replacing Morales and Smoak)
Cecil for free if they want him back
Now that is a lot of players, I know, but I think there is something to try in the idea
Giles gives us a clear closer, and makes Miller and Hicks still being able to be used tactically
Stroman gives us good contract and still upside starter pitcher, Stroman slots into the rotation with Carlos out very easily and if Carlos is not good to come back to the rotation right away puts less pressure on him to HAVE to go to the pen instead of getting better on rehab (which Giles helps with). Also if Waino runs out of gas and Carlos is ready to go, we slot Waino out and Carlos in…and that 1-5 is pretty nasty
Losing Helsley isnt great, but is mitigated by Giles addition
way i see it:
-Mikolas, Wacha, Flaherty, Stroman, Wainwright…Carlos, Reyes, Hudson next up
-Giles, Miller, Hicks, Brebbia, Leone, Shreve, Gant, Cecil/Gregerson/kid…..Hudson, Reyes, Carlos etc.
-lineup and bench stay the same except we have a better bench with Oneill on it and protects us better for CF poor offense out of BaderMarch 11, 2019 at 11:08 am #83704
Jager, here is my take. The idea that a team like Toronto could be a good fit for Gyorko makes sense. He needs to get well and back playing again first, I suspect.
Having said that, the thought that Toronto might trade their no. 1 starter or their experienced closer straight up for a reserve, fill-in infielder probably is not realistic, let alone both of them.March 11, 2019 at 11:11 am #83705mudvilleParticipantPaid - Annual
Gyorko is nursing an injury to his calf so we haven’t seen much of him this spring. Tampa Bay seemed like a good fit for a healthy Gyorko in that they could use a RH bat with more power. I don’t think the poor-mouthing Rays wanted his salary. With injuries to both Jed Lowrie (knee) and Todd Frazier (oblique), you’d think the Mets would be interested, also. Derrick Goold has reported in the Post-Dispatch that Gyorko will be back in about a week (3_18). Something could still happen after that.
Munoz is hitting his way onto the Opening Day roster. Let’s hope his defense is improved especially at SS.March 11, 2019 at 11:31 am #83707
Which is why I didnt suggest Gyorko for Stroman straight up… I suggested Gyorko + Helsley + Baker + Mayers and Gomber/POnce for him and Giles
and Gyorko was starter for us last year…only unseated by Goldy so the utility fill in tag is not really fair…especially when he coudl be starter on many MLB squads at 3b
I could be light on the proposal…i probably am, but I think Helsley is big time pitcher and has some serious cred as a chip….i also think Baker also has some cred too…
as i said i woudl happy to adjust but i think something is there to build a bigger deal
for a team like the Jays with so much young talent and knowing this year isnt going to beat the Sox or Yanks…i think cutting salary would be worth it
Also Stroman was not exactly great last year and hasnt been the phenom everyone thought he’d be…not to mention some injuries… but i am fine with what he is, i dont want him as an Ace…i want him as a solid SP who is goign into arb 4 after this year and is at 7million this year
he replaces Wacha next year making that transition better, with Hudson and Reyes taking Waino’s spot, or if Carlos cant start or is limited we have his rotation spot available
Giles wasnt all world either last year and while he is somewhat affordable at 6million going into arb 3, i am not sure they will see him as a necessity at his probably uptick in salary after arb3 and 4
both are definitely valuable, even to the Jays…but if the Jays can cut those salaries while gaining some nice young prospects i think they’d think hard on it
Helsley can become Stroman or Giles
Ponce/Gomber can be solid rotation members with an upside still very possible…but i could see a different SP in this spot or a younger guy with higher upside added to make it work…i just stay away from Reyes and Hudson
Mayers can help anyone’s pen even if it is in a limited role
Gyorko makes sense
Baker is a power hitting 1b/DH which could allow them to move Morales or Smoak or just move on them
2020- Mik, Jack, Stroman, 2 of Carlos/Hudson/Reyes is nasty
March 11, 2019 at 12:00 pm #83717
- This reply was modified 8 months, 4 weeks ago by thejager.
Stroman is probably not doable but I would do Gyorko and Ponce for Giles.
Giles is not an elite closer but he would be a nice addition for our pen. He was really good for the Phillies but kind of flamed out with the Astros. I think they were glad to ship him out. Maybe a change of scenery would be good for him.March 12, 2019 at 9:14 am #83777
He has 2 arbs left but his price is already pretty high, i think he has good value and enough control to make it worth a bit more than POnce and one year of Gyorko…i’d offer another borderline pitcher to replace him (Mayers) lower pitcher or depth hitter maybe Garcia?
Then for Stroman go with bigger guns, like our depth at 3b
Gyorko, Mayers/Garcia, Ponce/Gomber
Helsley, Mendoza, Baker
How far off is that?
Stroman seems a bit heavy but Giles seems a bit light
As much as i’d love to propose Vald or Biggio, Bichette deal with TOR I think targeting their payroll bigger money guys is a solid tactic while they try to bring their young guys up so they can compete with the Sox and Yanks which they obviously wont be doing for a while
I dunno… this thread has been lacking lately and I wanted to think through some of this with all you smart peopleMarch 12, 2019 at 9:51 am #83778
Technically I think Giles only has one arb hearing after this year and Gyroko technically has two years of control counting the option so the proposed trade would be a combined seven years of Gyroko and Ponce for two years of Giles. That isn’t a bad deal but if we had to throw another minor piece in it wouldn’t be the end of the world.
Again, I think Giles would be a nice addition to our pen but not near to the extent Kimbrel would be. Of course he doesn’t have Kimbrel’s price tag either.
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