Home › The Cardinal Nation Forums › Open Forum › Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors – 2019-2020
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January 29, 2020 at 3:27 pm #120980
I am not slamming national writers per se because they do sometimes break stories before local writers but it does seem apparent that national writers are so befuddled about the Cardinals inactivity that they will literally just throw anything out there to see if it sticks.
When in reality those of us who follow the team daily knew that this would be a slow offseason. I remember us talking about that months and months ago. Why? Because we knew that due to pay raises coming due this year there wouldn’t be much payroll room unless the Cardinals acted out of character.
Well they didn’t act out of character so no one should be shocked. The only shocking thing to me is that so many people are shocked. I predict we will be having this same discussion next winter because once again the payroll will be tight.
January 29, 2020 at 3:35 pm #12098625, even if Carp “tanks”, he’s still going to start. His contract will be in the lineup or on the injured list.
Fowler “tanked” bad in 2018 and he started 81% of our regular season games in 2019. It wasn’t because he was good either. So when we look at these bench options, like Holt, I’d prefer a platoon player who hits LHP’s well, so we could sit Carp or Fowler vs lefties.January 29, 2020 at 3:44 pm #120988jj-cf-stl said:
1) 25, even if Carp “tanks”, he’s still going to start. His contract will be in the lineup or on the injured list.
2) Fowler “tanked” bad in 2018 and he started 81% of our regular season games in 2019. It wasn’t because he was good either.
1) Like in September and October when Edman and Carpenter were both healthy and Edman started ahead of him most of the time?
To open 2020, Carpenter will get a chance as he should, but if he doesn’t produce, Shildt has already shown he will bench him. The only question is “at what point”?
2) Cardinals starters with a lower OPS+ than Fowler in 2019: DeJong, Carpenter, Molina and Bader. (Bench OFs lower: Martinez and O’Neill.) Fowler wasn’t great (2% below league average), but if those other guys would have done as well as he did, the team would have been far better.
We will have to see what 2020 brings, but Fowler was far from the worst problem with the 2019 offense. Some cannot let 2018 go.
My belief is that if Fowler backslides in 2020 and a young OF steps up like Edman did in the IF last year, then Fowler would play less, too. In fact, it could be Edman in RF if Fowler struggles. Again, the relevant question should be, “at what point?”
January 29, 2020 at 3:47 pm #120991apologist
January 29, 2020 at 3:54 pm #120992gscottar said:
When in reality those of us who follow the team daily knew that this would be a slow offseason. I remember us talking about that months and months ago.
jj-cf-stl said:
apologist
How about you go back and pull up DeWitt’s comments from the end of the playoffs? This winter, he did just about what he said he would do.
One doesn’t have to agree, but it isn’t like he promised “A” and did “B”.
P.S. Stop with the name calling. Thanks.
January 29, 2020 at 3:58 pm #120993DeJong didn’t have a lower ops. Schildt did bench Carp late when our season was on the line, and postseason. Carp still started 66% of the time in 2019.
Fowlers 2018 happened, and he didn’t get cut or benched in 2019. Contracts play.
January 29, 2020 at 4:11 pm #120996So what you are saying is that they play contracts until they bench them? On that, I agree.
January 29, 2020 at 4:37 pm #121000Brian, I wasn’t slamming DeWitt for the slow offseason. I was showing my surprise that some folks were thinking this offseason would be different. I am not disappointed in the offseason because I was prepared for it. I was prepared for it because I follow payrolls and budgets very closely. If more people would take the time to look at Cots or Roster Resource more frequently then there would be fewer surprises.
I think considering the limitations this offseason hasn’t been bad. I know we haven’t done much to alter 2020 but there have been some nice long term moves made. The Liberatore trade was good plus we now have five draft picks in the next draft.
January 29, 2020 at 4:47 pm #121006gscottar, sorry I was unclear. I was quoting you and agreeing. It was jj-cf-stl with whom I had a difference of opinion.
January 29, 2020 at 8:34 pm #121024A Betts article from KMOX (they do articles?) in which the author makes a huge assumption that is contrary to everything everyone else has been writing and saying, while suggesting the Cardinals are a possible destination for Mookie.
“The Cardinals may also feel pretty confident in dealing a top tier prospect and re-signing Betts, too…”
In fact, a big reason Betts might be traded is that the Red Sox don’t think they can re-sign him. So, why would he change his mind and not test free agency if traded? It isn’t like Arenado where there is a problem with his current organization. If anything, I believe a trade would more logically reinforce Betts’ desire to enter the market.
And we know DeWitt doesn’t buy rentals.
My conclusion: Faulty assumptions by the author, IMO.
https://kmox.radio.com/articles/radiocom/mookie-betts-trade-rumors-ranking-the-top-landing-spots
January 29, 2020 at 8:46 pm #121026Aha. It is not a local writer. It is a NY-based “Senior Content Producer” for KMOX’ parent company. In other words, he likely doesn’t know the Cardinals. Never mind.
January 30, 2020 at 9:33 am #12104914NyquisTParticipantDoes this trade make sense?
Report: Cubs, Rockies have discussed trading Kris Bryant for Nolan Arenado
Larry Brown Sports.
Both can use a breathe of fresh air. Nobody here here wants Arenado in our division unless he’s in a Card uniform.
January 30, 2020 at 9:36 am #121050Brian mentioned that one in the Cubs thread yesterday. I don’t think it makes any sense, especially with some of the contortions that Cubs fans have put on the Rockies in the deal.
January 30, 2020 at 7:23 pm #121085The Bryant-Arenado thing is 100% fabricated nonsense, but with the FA issue being resolved, the likelihood of Bryant being moved by Aug 1 has gone from 99.8- to 99.9 – per CardsinChitown source
February 1, 2020 at 12:29 pm #121213Another Betts-Cardinals blowing in the wind article, this one from CBS.
Four reasons why the author thinks a deal should be done:
1) Cards need offense – absolutely
2) NL Central is there for the taking – true, whether a trade or not
3) This might be Molina’s last hurrah – the author is not paying attention
4) One-year commitment – yes, the kind DeWitt avoidsThe author skips past the money issue by pointing out that the owner can afford to spend more. He doesn’t mention the prospect cost at all. Not very practical given what we know about how the Cardinals operate.
He could just recycle the article, changing point 4 to “two-year commitment” and update the references from “Betts” to “Arenado”.
Four reasons why the Cardinals should aggressively pursue a Mookie Betts tradehttps://t.co/qyaWeYTjIY pic.twitter.com/nOuILYNVbc
— CBS Sports MLB (@CBSSportsMLB) February 1, 2020
February 1, 2020 at 7:55 pm #121244Very slow time of year for writers with deadlines…. clearly reaching for anything even remotely feasible. Number 1 on your list is 100% accurate from the writer though.
Going back to the Bader conversation, on a team with even a decent lineup his bat could be hidden for his glove, I just don’t see how they can afford to keep him in the lineup if he hits like he did last year. Fowler (sadly), Thomas and O’neill is my prediction for the Memorial Day outfield.
February 1, 2020 at 9:05 pm #121247Edman is the starter in right.
February 3, 2020 at 1:12 pm #121325Bleacher Report just did an offseason grades report and the NLC’s grades were as follows:
Cubs – D
Reds – A
Brewers – D+
Cards – D+
Pirates – DI can’t say I disagree one bit with those rankings. The Reds have put themselves in a good spot to compete, especially with their SP. If you were a Reds fan, you should be nothing short of excited. Maybe the Cubs should be an F due to lack of doing anything on a 3rd place team. The Brewers FO you can’t blame, they are much more cash strapped than the Cards, but could have used another SP or three. The Pirates need to get a haul for Bell while they can’t, and I think they could have gotten more for Marte. Holding on to Archer to rebuild value in the 1st half is smart.
The Cards at a D+ is correct, where they hurt themselves was with the Carpenter extension last offseason. That would have given them a lot more flexibility this offseason. The Liberatore trade could go down as a great one or terrible one, so as an extreme unknown, I’d call it a C+. Hopefully Kim ends up looking like the steal of the offseason.
February 3, 2020 at 1:54 pm #121328I’d have to give the Liberatore trade a B/B+, or more depending on his development. I might regret reading Arozarena, but not Martinez.
February 3, 2020 at 2:08 pm #121329Probably not a Cardinals target, but I couldn’t resist. Suppose his nickname is “Unca”?
Mariners Designate Matt Festa For Assignment https://t.co/Y8cey1GH3c pic.twitter.com/FONicam6r3
— MLB Trade Rumors (@mlbtraderumors) February 3, 2020
February 3, 2020 at 2:26 pm #121331There’s still a few players out there that might be worth looking at, at least for minor league signings and spring training invites.
-Scooter Gennett = terrible last year because of injury, but is not far removed from being a major offensive threat. Can play 2b, 3b, and even corner outfield spots. Power hitting left hand bat for the bench on a team with concerns over offensive production would make him worth a gamble id’ think.
-BRock Holt = will get a major league deal, and we all know he is a multi tool that we already have in Edman, but he is left handed and hits for a good average
-Puig = we all know him…we all know what comes with him…will get a major league deal
-Hunter Pence= ultimate shot in the dark here as last year’s solid production could have been the last gasp of his career, but he is left handed and a veteran. and hits for average, is that so bad for a bench bat?
-Domingo Santana = HUGE power still, not that old, still K’s a lot, but coudl be offense. Might sneak through for a minor league deal.
-Aaron Sanchez = low risk high reward. still young enough to put it together, left handed. starter or maybe reliever. injuries have slowed him
-Lonnie Chisenhall = veteran left handed outfielder with some pop. im not saying he is more than the youngsters at AAA, but he is a vet and might be worth a look to see if he is healthy
-Aaron Loup = Lefty veteran, missed time with injury. still 32. might be worth a look for spring training and for depth at AAA
It’s not like there is a lot out there. And i want to see the kids play too, but the team still is searching for offense.
To me I bring in Gennett and Sanchez and see what they have. Sanchez’s longer term upside could make for some tradable assets if need be. Gennett if healthy could put up 25HRs with his left handed bat and is versatile enough to move around to fit in. He also still isnt 30. I also might bring is Loup or another lefty vet for depth at AAA at worst.
February 3, 2020 at 4:35 pm #121343Jager, very very good list. No one cares, but my thoughts below! Gennett, Pence, Sanchez and Loup would be great additions.
-Gennett – He would be a great insurance policy, he’s also projected to have a better OPS than all but one Cardinal in 2020. Sign me up on this band wagon if he’s healthy?
-Holt – Between Edman, Munoz and Sosa I don’t see it happening unless they could move Munoz for a minor league piece or something decent
-Puig – The clubhouse might be one of the lone solid parts of the Cards, even if he’s “grown up” the juice isn’t worth the squeeze
-Hunter Pence – If he knew going in he was strictly a bench bat, go for it, that Fowler contract really kills a lot of options out there doesn’t it?!?
-Domingo Santana – Also projected for a higher OPS than all but one Cardinal…. I’d prefer Gennett though due to the LHH
-Aaron Sanchez – Would he agree to the BP? If so his stuff, age, etc his stuff could allow him to be a Andrew Miller 5 years ago.
-Lonnie Chisenhall – Minor league deal couldn’t hurt
-Aaron Loup – Hasn’t been very good the last 5 years, but as a AAA option that has that much experience, he’s the kind of guy you need in AAA. In a pennant race, I’d rather have someone like him to call up than someone with zero experienceFebruary 3, 2020 at 9:33 pm #121358Hunter Pence doesn’t bat left handed
February 3, 2020 at 9:37 pm #121359He doesn’t throw left handed either.
February 4, 2020 at 7:40 am #121367Not advocating for or against but the Addison Russell rumor mill has been almost non existent. Wonder if he will even get a major league deal at this point.
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