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my bad…sorry about that Hunter Pence slip up…i had a bunch of tabs open…guess i missed it… nevertheless, as a veteran OF option who can make contact and provide a little punch he could fit
i dont want Russell even if he was free…no reason to bring that kind of baggage in…and even when he played last year he wasnt good…id imagine he gets a minor league invite somewhere though
Keymaster
Paid – Annual
Russell and Puig would be a nice package for any team that likes radioactivity.The Astros and Rockies would fit that description.
Sorry on the handed ness but I read he may be out all 2020 so it’s most definitely moot right
But ugh. 2 errors in one post yuck.
I need spring training
Sorry on the handed ness but I read he may be out all 2020 so it’s most definitely moot right
But ugh. 2 errors in one post yuck.
I need spring training
It’s ok, Jager. Your trade thread game is usually spot on. How about the news of Betts and Price to the Dodgers? The rich get richer, I suppose.
Sanchez would be a nice move for the Cardinals. I wish they would do something at this point. Taking a chance on a guy like Sanchez is a worthwhile risk. They did something similar 2003 taking a chance on Chris Carpenter, who was released by Toronto due to various arm injuries, including shoulder problems.
If they aren’t going to spend money on premium free agents, they need to start at least taking calculated risks on guys like this. I have been immensely disappointed the Cardinals did not pursue any short-term pillow contracts to see if you can get some quality production from a guy on a bounce back. They used to do that pretty regularly (Berkman, Beltran) and have seemed to avoid these like the plague the past five years.
I just looked at the 20-21 offseason numbers, we are likely in for another boring one unfortunately. Assuming Yadi resigns at around $15M, Wong’s option is picked up, the arb eligible guys and min deals…. even with a 5% increase, they might have as little as $15M to fill out the roster. Flaherty’s Arb 1 year alone could be close to 8 digits, especially if he’s top 3 in the CY in 2020.
#PleaseRetireDexter
Yep, I have been saying this repeatedly. I already have the 2021 payroll projected at $158M. There won’t be any big acquisitions until 2022.
Gscott, that’s about where I estimated as well after adding in all of the “extras”. The Fowler and Carpenter contracts are crippling, at least Cecil and Leake will be off the books.
Have I mentioned how much I don’t like the Dodgers?…. or maybe it’s jealousy? They haven’t been signing the massive contracts lately, or had an absurd payroll, but they are very well run and spend their money wisely.
Fowler’s contract is still a drag for this team. With the money he is paid we could have signed a player that would actually help us out here. There must have been a clause in his contract that he plays X amount of games per season, if available. Outside of Mozeliak’s refusal to admit his gross error, I’m not getting why an under-average player can continue to get so much playing time. It hurts us.
Watch who chimes in on this. I’m just trying to keep it real.
Have I mentioned how much I don’t like the Dodgers?…. or maybe it’s jealousy? They haven’t been signing the massive contracts lately, or had an absurd payroll, but they are very well run and spend their money wisely.
I enjoy beating the Dodgers but I have a lot of respect for Friedman and their front office. They do a lot of things well and it rarely involves free agency. When I compare Mo to Friedman I intend it as a high compliment.
If they benched every player on the 2019 offense who was under average (per OPS+), here are the players who would have sat (50 PA’s minimum):
Fowler 98
DeJong 97
Martinez 97
Carpenter 91
O’Neill 88
Molina 85
Wieters 80
Bader 78
Knizner 75
Munoz 71
Gyorko 52That would have left just four above-average guys to play eight positions, and one of them, Ozuna, is now gone. So yeah, single out the top guy on the below-average list and ignore the 10 others who were even worse. Gee, I wonder why?
The data is about as real as one can get. Much more so than goofy speculation that a player has playing time assurances in his contract, which by the way, is against the rules. But rant on…as if every poster here doesn’t already know that you dislike Molina and Fowler…
Have I mentioned how much I don’t like the Dodgers?…. or maybe it’s jealousy? They haven’t been signing the massive contracts lately, or had an absurd payroll, but they are very well run and spend their money wisely.
Their ability to spend is something to admire and they do develop talent well, but I’m 37 and I’m still not old enough to remember a stretch when the Dodgers were more significantly more successful than the Cardinals. So I’m not too jealous of them.
Jager, as I posted in the castellanes thread a week ago, I see a ton of upside in a one year Pence deal. Last year hit .297 18hr, 5 steals, and supposedly a fantastic clubhouse guy. Between ozuna and martinez gone, and the possibility of no bats stepping up in our outfield, and the new extra roster position, I’d love Pence as the new Martinez. He is not the outfielder he used to be but that bat works for me. I’d gladly support offering 4 mil. Supposedly he is getting a look from the Astros and Texas is his home so it may be too late.
Im more interested in Gennett than Pence as the need for LH hitter with power speaks to me a bit more than a vet righty. Especially when Gennett can play anywhere except CF, SS, C. I’d be much more willing to gamble on Gennett right now.
Having said that…I would like a more proven vet bat on the bench and Wieters wont play or pinch hit unless we carry 3 catchers os he is out.
Gennett
Pence
Sanchez on Carp like deal if possible maybe look at Taijuan Walker the same
try to swing an Aaron Loup or Duensing vet LHRP on a minor league dealGennett’s rebound seems more plausible than Pence keeping up what he did last year and at this point as his age is on our side.
Still…Pence would be a fine addition to me
I like Gennett but I don’t see how he would get much playing time with Edman around but nothing wrong with another LH bench bat with power.
Heard Taijaun Walker was 86-88 in recent workout for scouts when he was up to 94 in his hay days. I’ll pass.
Walker and probably Sanchez would be at total speculation and hope for better results in new system after more recovery…can’t commit too much…though they both do have age on their side a bit
I agree about Gennett and Edman being similar…however with the extra bench spot another multi tool…especially a LHH with power makes some sense.
Some folks here will side with the powers that be seemingly no matter what. That is their right. For a few here there may be a good reason for them for to condone those imprudent actions. I don’t dislike Fowler or Molina. I have never said that I disliked Fowler or Yadi, you can look that it up. It’s the “last in first out” and lack of hustle type of attitude that is unsettling for some Card fans, me included.
I dislike their contracts and some of their verbal tendencies off the field. There so no doubt that the Fowler contract was the FO paying for a player that had one great year (’16). What we got was nothing close to that. Fowler was out of control in ’18 and he said that himself, yet he was in the lineup nearly daily, even while in a state of “depression”.
Maybe playing time can’t be written into a contract, but rather an agreement. Heaven knows that playing Fowler during his ’18 season had no reasonable explanation. Reasonable. “Waiting for him to improve” isn’t an excuse that a reasonable baseball man would make. Not playing him because of his condition would have been reasonable.
Provoking posters in such a manner is not a good habit or trait as it tends to rile them instead of educating them and actually proving a point. I feel that it is necessary to respond although it is time consuming and that time that could be better spent elsewhere. Come on now, “goofy” “EVERY poster”…. really? It would be better for you to use your expertise wisely.
I’m just a guy sitting in the last row of the cheap seats trying to express what I feel and I try very hard to give credit where credit is due… but I can’t in this case.
ps. Enjoy the nice weather and thanks for all the good info that we get from you from you from down at SP. 🙂
Ny said:
Watch who chimes in on this. I’m just trying to keep it real.
Ny then said this:
Provoking posters in such a manner is not a good habit or trait as it tends to rile them instead of educating them and actually proving a point.
Hmmm…
An excellent way to make a point is to present some real data. Or refute points others make with supporting data and more than just more opinion. Your contract suggestion was quite off base, in my view, though I am sorry if calling your idea “goofy” insulted you. I tried to pick a soft word. Perhaps I should not have taken your initial post seriously.
As far as my points of view, there are plenty of examples when I do not support “the powers that be”. But the reality here is that this Fowler discussion has nothing to do with the powers that be. His contact is what it is – over and done with. A bad contract. But on the field, the fact is that Fowler did not play poorly enough to sit last season. In fact, when he and Wong were put at the top of the lineup, the team started playing better. You can look it up.
Of all the problems the Cardinals offense had in 2018, Fowler was likely the largest negative. Of all the problems the Cardinals offense had in 2019, Fowler was by far NOT the worst problem. Not even close.
So which year is more consistent with Fowler’s track record? And which year is more likely to reflect what he will do in 2020? We shall see.
How about he earns some of his salary and has a 2016 season? That’s what Mozeliak fed us for 2017 and in a way he still is in 2020. Another ’19 season play is below mediocre offensively and defensively, but sub-par or well below average will still find him in the lineup….. that’s what I’m not getting. Why is the FO demanding he play??? Just why the hell is that. Mozeliak has never answered that question. If he can make a pitch that sounds reasonable, I might buy it…. otherwise it will probably be another season of teeth-grinding.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree on the Fowler STL legacy. And speaking of legacies… the Fowler contract and how it was handled will always be included in Mozeliak’s…. 10 20 50 years from now.
I think more people will remember the consistent on-field success, including a World Series title, but there are obviously some who are vowing to let a bad contract take an unusually high level of importance decades from now. Or if it is not that, it will be something else negative.
That you believe the “FO is demanding he play” is just more speculation like Fowler’s supposed contract clause or secret playing time agreement that do not exist. Far be it to think the manager actually believed Fowler was one of his best three outfielders last season. Shildt even put him in the leadoff spot! But let me guess. You believe the FO makes up the lineup card, too? Let’s see. That is why Fowler played while Carpenter and Bader sat, right? Makes complete sense.
Carrying on any more specific Fowler discussion with you right now is not going to go anywhere, so I will leave you with this…
Rant on!
It could be argued that Fowler had a better 2017 in St. Louis than he did in 2016 if you look closely at the stats. In 2018, Fowler had a terrible year. However, there wasn’t much else the Cardinals could do. They didn’t have many options to replace him especially with Pham struggling also. At the time O’Neill started to take over for Fowler, O’Neill got injured. Fowler started hitting a little better and it looked like he might be coming out of the funk. O’Neill came off the DL and went to AAA to fully recover and get his swing. Fowler still didn’t perform to his career standards but his BABIP was around 120 points below his career average while his BA was about 80 points below his career average. Pham was traded on July 31 and Fowler’s season ended on August 4. If situations were different (more OFs available to play), I think Fowler would have sat some more than he did.
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