September 15, 2019 at 7:59 am #10624114NyquisTParticipantPaid - Annual
Its almost certain that Edman will improve. Let’s have this conversation at this time next season because a lot can happen in 12 months.
I have some suspicion that Wong could be moved because he has plenty of value right now. A Gold Glove 2nd baseman would just add to what he could fetch. For Wong and a nice prospect we should be able to get a solid rotation guy. A team looking to tighten up on their defense would cream for a player like Wong.
I have nothing against Kolten but he never really gained much support from the Cardinal faithful. Tsk tsk that pickoff in the WS remains in the minds of some.September 15, 2019 at 10:29 am #106264Minuteman3ParticipantFree
So when he have a guy who has a lot of value and maybe even a gold glove we get rid of him because he is valuable huh? Sounds to me like that’s what losers do – Arizona, Baltimore, KC, Toronto. Our current rotation, which has been performing admirably as of late, is 100 percent home grown if you count Wainwright who has been here for years. But maybe we should peddle our good players and buy a rotation guy who may or may not be good. No thanks for me.September 15, 2019 at 12:03 pm #106271September 15, 2019 at 4:53 pm #106323
Minuteman, if your answer to a discussion is that he is the manager and we are not, why are you even posting? This whole board has no influence on the Cardinals. We are all just giving opinions. I really don’t care that Shildt is the manager. If he wants to play Edman as an OF, I think he is making poor choices. If he thinks Edman is an everyday player at anywhere other than 2B, I think he is making poor choices. Edman is not a starting 3Bman on a championship caliber team. If Edman was a great defender in CF, his bat would profile there. His bat also profiles well at 2B or SS. It does not profile well at corner OF or corner INF.September 16, 2019 at 11:11 am #106368Cardinals27ParticipantPaid - Annual
It would be nice to get Pomeranz. Maybe a 3 year deal, 15 mill? He’s done a good job for the Brewers, and would make for a nice 2nd lefty, and eventually take Millers spot in 2021.September 17, 2019 at 6:57 pm #106548CardsFanInChiTownParticipantFree
We all seem to focus on the need to add a SP for 2020, which I’m on that bandwagon as well and still in favor of a package around O’neill for Matt Boyd. However, the lineup is actually a much bigger problem. The Cards have given up the second (to the Dodgers) fewest runs in the NL and have given up 47 fewer than the Cubs who are third. They are 5th worst in runs scored, and would be a lot worse if they didn’t have that “every once in a while” huge number since they rarely score between 2-10 runs. This leads me to believe, the lineup is where the free money should be spent.September 17, 2019 at 9:59 pm #106602mudvilleParticipantPaid - Annual
This team needs a slugger. We thought we were getting one when we traded for Ozuna. He’s been good at times, but he’s never been a dependable slugger. Goldschmidt was also supposed to be a slugger, but he just out and out deceived MO and everybody else. Carpenter was another one who was supposed to bring a big bat. Last season it was salsa that enabled him to hit, but this year no salsa and no slugging. I don’t see a clear way out of this mess. Probably the best thing to do is just keep building on our strength which is pitching.September 18, 2019 at 9:13 am #106659thejagerParticipantPaid - Annual
I like the Pomeranz idea, solid get
Unless I get an absolute Ace in FA (Cole or Stras) I am either trading for a good contract 2-3 or signing a 1yr lefty like Alex Wood
After watching Rendon this year and in this series in clutch time, I say go all in on him
Edman can be supersub with Carp, and can learn and play OF well enough to play it so we can put him in the lineup if need be.
Go big for Rendon, he is as close to Arenado as may ever be available.
Let Ozuna walk after a QO if he doesn’t take it, if he does (he won’t you may push the luxury line for a year)
-trade for Minor (Ponce + Jmart + Mendoza)
-sign Rendon (32m 6yrs)
-re-sign Waino (incentive laden)
-sign Austin Romine (couple year contract as Knizner insurance)
-re-sign Cingrani (minor league contract with walk away for him if he doesnt make team)
Fowler, Wong, Rendon, Goldy, DeJong, Yadi, Oneill/Randy/Edman, Bader
Romine, Knizner, Edman, Randy, Carp
Jack, Minor, Mik, Hud, Waino
Cmart, Miller, Gallegos, Brebbia, Junior, Gant, Genesis, HelsleySeptember 18, 2019 at 10:41 am #106677stlcard25ParticipantPaid - Annual
Jager, I like the idea of Minor but I fear that your three players wouldn’t be enough to get him after his excellent 2019. I’d think it might take something more like Ponce, Arozarena/O’Neill and Seijas. Unfortunately, I don’t think Jmart and Mendoza have any real value in trades due to age and poor results this year.September 18, 2019 at 11:39 am #106682skippy mckillParticipantFree
I don’t think Rendon is an option. You’re already paying MCarp $18.5M for the first two years of that contract at the same position. He would be as bad as JMart in the OF. No way they don’t play him, same as they are doing with Fowler just because of the $. They’re sitting him now, but they also sat Fowler last year at the end of the season, and he was the opening day starter. They’ll do the same thing with MCarp because of the contract.
They’re stuck at 1st, 3rd, RF and C. Wong and DeJong have trade value, but you don’t want to trade those guys. CF and RF are the only positions you can realistically upgrade on this roster for 2020.
I’d focus on the rotation. Mikolas should be the #5. Hudson the #4. You hope and pray CMart can work his way back. Flaherty is your ace. So that means you go after a #2 or #3 rotation guy.
IMOSeptember 18, 2019 at 11:48 am #106683mudvilleParticipantPaid - Annual
After seeing what happened Sunday against Milwaukee because we didn’t have a closer, I don’t understand how anybody can advocate moving CMart to the rotation, or worse, trading him. If Fernandez becomes a reliable closer next year, then maybe trade CMart the following offseason.September 18, 2019 at 1:17 pm #106699
Skippy is correct. Rendon is a pipe dream.
Carp will get every opportunity to “rediscover” himself just like Fowler. Edman will be waiting in the wings to take over unless they make him our everyday LF.September 18, 2019 at 2:16 pm #106714thejagerParticipantPaid - Annual
I get what you are saying about JMart and Mendoza, though i don’t think they have lost all their value, perhaps you offer Oneill, but i think you need to move on from Jmart so finding a way to include him to an AL team would make sense.
AS for Minor, yeah he had a good year…but he only has next year left on the contract, at the deadline his value made a lot more sense to be sky high, but now with only 1yr of control and cheapness before FA I don’t think he will pull a huge deal unless some is desperate, which i dont think we need to be
A counter to him could be Duffy from KC, who did not have a good a year, but was on a much more poor team, although his contract is longer, but at a higher per year cost. JMart could also be of use for them as well. Duffy might be a very good change of scenery type of pitcher we used to be very good in identifying. And as KC will undoubtedly want to clear his salary, I can’t imagine he would cost much AND we may even be able to not have to take it all on depending on what we offered.
As for Rendon, I still think you wade in and go for him big. There are few game changers out there. Rendon is one, same as a true Ace. But our pitching has been pretty good this year, we still make very good pitchers in our system. What we dont produce are hitters like Rendon. Go big for him, and utilize the farm to tighten up the pitching whether from within, or for a trade. Let the young OFers fight for the spots as it is one of the only places of true upside hitting depth we consistently produce.
Having said that, I’d still be up for a combo trade with KC to target another game changer which is Whit Merrifield IMO add in Duffy for the rotation. I think Whit as an OF and #3 could be pretty great. The front 3 of our lineup would be very dynamic and quick and athletic. He has good enough pop, and makes great contact and has wheels. He may not have the wallup of Ozuna or Rendon, but he still would provide ample consistency in the 3 spot that would set the table for anyone behind him.
If we went with a team speed team and defense, you could really be fun to watch with:
Fowler, Wong, Whit…then Goldy, DeJong, Yadi,…and Edman and Bader…
It’s tough to know exactly what will happen…lots COULD though
what i would say is that we have a hole in the offense with Ozuna…either filled by OZuna or someone else….and we have a pitching hole at the top…also a slight problem with the 2nd lefty in the pen
INTERNAL solutions do exist:
now we could replace those with… Carlson/Oneill, CMart, Genesis/Webb….and then we’d be left with a problem at the back end which MAY be solved by Gallegos until Hicks returns…
It’s not a bad team, but the offense has been so inconsistent this year i don’t think you can just act like it didnt happen…they need consistency …they need a guy that hits for good average…regardless if that is an ancient stat or not…that is what they need in the middle of the lineup…someone who wont just leave the guys stranded by free swinging, which is what Goldy, and DEjong do…which is necessary to some degree
I see no reason for anyone to act like they know what is going to be done or what is not to be done…we can all speculate and give reasons….but no one knows at all…you can be pessimistic and act like you know more when you dont and are guessing like everyone else
being realistic is only provable once something is real…until then everything is possible and anything can happen….so thinking out loud and trying ideas is far from unrealistic or not worth anyone’s time
I dont see the point in coming here only to try to tell someone else they are wrong when there is no objective rightSeptember 18, 2019 at 2:22 pm #106719
I would be ALL in on Merrifield.
JMart, O’Neill, Adolis, and Sosa for Whit?September 18, 2019 at 5:43 pm #106767CardsFanInChiTownParticipantFree
Gscottar, I agree on being all in, but I think the Royals FO would laugh then actually roll on the floor laughing at Mo, then send him ribs out of pitty.
I don’t see how they would get him without a decent major league piece and/or one of Carlson or Gorman.September 18, 2019 at 5:54 pm #106769CariocaCardinalParticipantPaid - Monthly
Gscott – that is all in?September 18, 2019 at 5:55 pm #106770stlcard25ParticipantPaid - Annual
And that would be a laughable overpay. Just say no to Whit. He’s over 30 and we know what happens to old players. He’s going to play 2020 at the same age as Goldy this year and only two years younger than Carpenter, and people are grousing over those two. So to give up an elite prospect for that? No way. Think what we got for Tommy Pham. That’s the max value I’d give up.September 18, 2019 at 6:11 pm #106771
Forsch is 100% wrong about Tommy Edman…he is a starter in our line-up wherever Mike Shildt wants to play him. We are not in 1st place without Tommy Edman. He is our most exciting player.September 18, 2019 at 6:43 pm #106773
GameCard, but you still haven’t answered who you would not trade Edman for, straight up: Donaldson, Bryant, Rendon and Turner.
I guarantee you that there are 30 ML GMs that would trade him off of their team, straight up for any 1 of those players.September 18, 2019 at 6:53 pm #106775
I wouldn’t trade him and it is a moot point because he isn’t going to be traded.September 18, 2019 at 7:00 pm #106778
Then I am glad you are not the GM.September 18, 2019 at 7:09 pm #106781
And I am very glad you are not.September 18, 2019 at 7:41 pm #106784Minuteman3ParticipantFree
GameCard, but you still haven’t answered who you would not trade Edman for, straight up: Donaldson, Bryant, Rendon and Turner.
I guarantee you that there are 30 ML GMs that would trade him off of their team, straight up for any 1 of those players.>
OMG why are your trying to compare apples and oranges. I think Edman has just as much chance of having a great career as any of those you have mentioned. I rather doubt that you could guarantee anything that a ML GM would do. I don’t know why you continue to try and run down a rookie player and compare him to highly paid veterans. Everytime you make a statement about Edman he just goes out and proves you wrong but you are certainly entitled to your opinion. Too bad so many don’t agree with it.September 18, 2019 at 8:28 pm #106789
Minuteman, there are more on this board that understand what I am saying than what you think. You seem to think that I am trying to run Edman down. I am trying to remind that he is not as god-like as you and GameCard are making him out to be. He has a bat made for middle infield, catcher and CF. His bat does not play well at the corners of the infield and outfield for a high quality, winning team. He has had to play 3B because our regular starter forgot how to swing his bat for a majority of this year.
My comparison between the other 3Bman mentioned and Edman is very simple and is apples to apples. It is like a high school gym class selecting teams to play a game: you select the best players first. All of those 3Bmen are better than Edman.September 18, 2019 at 8:42 pm #106791
He is an exciting rookie that makes things happen and wins games. All that you just wrote is nonsense compared to that. Mike Shildt wished he had 8 like Tommy Edman.
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