September 18, 2019 at 10:06 pm #106800mudvilleParticipantPaid - Annual
I get the ideal that a championship third baseman would be a strong, tall slugger. As they say ‘Power at the corners and defense up the middle is what you need to win.’ I’m not sure that Montero fits that mold, certainly, Gorman and Nunez do. In the meantime we have Tommy Edman. He has been a driving force by playing up to the max of his current ability. In the future he might set his sights even higher. This team would absolutely not be leading the Division without his contributions. BTW, Edman’s OPS is now at .795 while Goldschmidt is at .810. If Edman isn’t good enough to want to keep, maybe we should consider moving Goldschmidt to SS or 2B.September 18, 2019 at 10:10 pm #106801forsch31ParticipantFree
mud, do you read my comments as I want to get rid of Edman?September 18, 2019 at 10:55 pm #106812
Carlson or Gorman for Merrifield?
Good grief. Whit is a fine player but he isn’t Mike Trout. The KC front office can laugh all they want if they think they are getting one of our top two prospects for Whit. That is a joke.September 19, 2019 at 8:53 am #106853thejagerParticipantPaid - Annual
Duffy and Whit make for an intriguing offseason trade
Duffy’s pricetag is a bit high for the performance he is giving, and Whit’s contract is nothign to his performance….both would fit nicely in StL IMO
the offer WITHOUT Carlson or Gorman I think exists…but definitely hurts
JMart, Ponce, Helsley, AdGarcia, Nunez/Montero
ready to go DH
ready to go SP
ready to go RP or convert to SP
ready to go OF with power and speed
future high potential corner IF
-leaves them room to go and get a FA or two if they want and still be super low on spending
I think taking on Duffy’s contract would help get Whit, even if it is not a dump at all
-Duffy and Whit slide right into the rotation and lineup
-We can then still go after a FA piece like Will Smith as Duffy and Whit arent TOO expensive, and we can still bring back Waino or look to a short term filler if Reyes, CMart, Woodford, Gomber cant pick up the mantle for #5
-We clear a bit of room in the depth chart in OF and the bench
-We need to replace Helsley…but Hicks coming back and Smith brought in along with Junior makes for a pretty good amount of options
-Duffy isn’t an Ace, but he is a lefty and the way Jack and Hud have grown this year, MAYBE we can get away without an established Ace. Duffy and Mik provide soli mid rotation valueSeptember 19, 2019 at 9:04 am #106856stlcard25ParticipantPaid - Annual
What position would Whit be brought in to play, exactly? 2B, 3B and all the OF spots are already a bit crowded. Unless you are willing to make Bader or Fowler a bench guy or stick Whit in LF, I’m not sure I see a spot for him. You’d be left trying to dump Carpenter at his lowest value and eating a ton of salary, and I’m on record as saying that Carp bounces back next year and Edman as super sub makes a lot of sense. Then we keep prospects and can look at making a real upgrade to the staff.September 19, 2019 at 10:51 am #106863skippy mckillParticipantFree
Jorge Soler is a much better DH and will only make $4M next year. Royals wouldn’t have any interest in JMart.September 19, 2019 at 11:36 am #106866thejagerParticipantPaid - Annual
Soler plays fine enough OF and they need solid OFers anyways
Whit comes in and replaces OZuna who we would let walk. He could play any OF position and almost any IF position, which also makes it easier to move him around if someone is struggling (Bader, Carp, Wong, Fowler all have had their severe ups and downs and could) or could make room for a guy like Carlson.
Carp and Edman as super utility bench guys with Munoz too (and for me 2 catchers that can play at least 1b Knizner and someone else…Romine, AStudillo, Kiner-Falefa, Swihart, Vazquez, etc etc)…makes for an impressive bench but also one that makes the team almost impressively suited for major slumps.
Carp Munoz Edman Whit (and to a lesser extent Knizner, Romine/Wieters etc.) can cover us at any position that may be slumping or injury with solid MLB starter level backups
Bader slumps…move over whit or Fowler, Edman slumps…Carp or Munoz….Wong…Whit, Edman Mnoz, even Carp…DeJong…Munoz, Edman, maybe even Whit…Goldy? Knizner or Carp…
While yes it would put Carp on a more permanent bench role, the ability to mix and match so the team stays out of extended slumps is far higher… It’s liek having a Ryan Ludwick 4th OFer but for every position, it woudl help with getting regular days off but also keeping us safe from injury and bad performance draggin the whole team down
and for Whit’s contract price…it woudlnt be that big of a deal…if he was 30mil sure…but at 5mil for Whit next year…even if you combine it with the 21 of Carp and Edman’s 500k…you end up with 3 players playing MLB level for 25.5m (or about 8.5m each…which is about 1 WAR) ….that is a steal…even if Carp is getting the most for the least it still provides plenty of production for the dollar spent
And even though Whit is a bit older than we all think as he is a late bloomer, his contract is so low that even if he transitions to a more utility role in the next couple years it istill well spent dollarsSeptember 19, 2019 at 1:14 pm #106870skippy mckillParticipantFree
I’m glad that they are smart enough to play Edman over MCarp during this pennant chase, but there’s no way they don’t give Carp more than enough chances to return to reasonable-enough form to be the everyday third baseman next year. Him and Fowler are holding it down for Gorman and Carlson. They will ride those two into the ground before they give up on them due to their contracts.September 19, 2019 at 4:54 pm #106888PadsFSParticipantFree
They’re stuck at 1st, 3rd, RF and C. Wong and DeJong have trade value, but you don’t want to trade those guys. CF and RF are the only positions you can realistically upgrade on this roster for 2020.
I’d focus on the rotation. Mikolas should be the #5. Hudson the #4. You hope and pray CMart can work his way back. Flaherty is your ace. So that means you go after a #2 or #3 rotation guy.
I think we should trade DeJong and put Edman at SS. I think we are getting “peak” DeJong. I don’t see him improving his hitting age 27-30, specifically improving in the areas that are holding him back. There actually are some positive signs in your wishlist. He has a declining K-rate…an improving BB-rate..increased ISO so I’m not entirely sure either.
Randal Grichuk and Stephen Piscotty are the players that, in my mind, we speculated on in their age 24-25 seasons and then they never really did much since ~ at least so far.
Grichuk wRC+ – 138, 102, 95, (traded) 115, 92
Piscotty wRC+ – 134, 116, 93, (traded) 126, 95
DeJong wRC+ – 123, 102, 99….(with excellent baserunning & defense at key position)
Finally, my point is that DeJong is a player that we can capitalize on by selling while still relatively high. Especially given that we have a known commodity to us in Edman that can do a lot of what DeJong does, but doesn’t have nearly the trade value. Edman and a pitcher such as Chris Paddack, Jose Berrios, German Marquez, or Aaron Nola would be more valuable than DeJong and Edman in a utility role.
September 19, 2019 at 9:25 pm #106996CardsFanInChiTownParticipantFree
- This reply was modified 8 months, 2 weeks ago by PadsFS.
I posed the question on here about a month ago, “what would a Flaherty extension look like?”. Over the last month, that number has probably gone up by at least $10M.
After that post, I was reminded of his comments about the player association and the leagues “fairness” so taking that into account it will take a little bump. He’d be in line for around 600k in 2020, then purely estimates of $6M, 12M and 20M in 21-23. For ease of calculations, lets call it 40M over the next 4 years of control. First year of free agency if he continues like this could easily be $30+ when you add in inflation, age, etc.
The key for the Cards is obviously to get extra years of control, his goal would be to be set for life, but with the opportunity to be a FA at 29 or 30. His current 4 years of control take him through age 27.(so FA going into age 28 season)
A fair amount and what it would likely take is 5 years/$60M with a $25M option for 2025 and a $2.5M buyout. The Cardinals could then keep him for 6 more years at a likely bargain, he’s set for life and gets to be a FA going into his 30 year old season.
Win – win ??September 19, 2019 at 9:38 pm #107018stlcard25ParticipantPaid - Annual
I think we should trade DeJong and put Edman at SS.
Pads, Dejong + ?? = Lindor?
He’d be shorter term but a large upgrade and the Indians would get a good SS for a long term. I’d imagine we would have to throw in an OF or pitching.September 19, 2019 at 10:37 pm #107067forsch31ParticipantFree
DeJong, O’Neill and Cabrera for Lindor and Hand. May have to throw in another prospect like Helsley. Even that may not get it done. Maybe see if Reyes has any value to the Indians.September 20, 2019 at 6:00 am #107076
Off the wall question. Would ownership/front office see a division win as validation of their current approach – being conservative in trades and free agency?September 20, 2019 at 6:07 am #107079Minuteman3ParticipantFree
In the case of this season Brian I think they would because of what was available on the trade market. So far, not much of it has made an impact on their team performance but I haven’t been watching that closely.September 20, 2019 at 8:57 am #107122
Off the wall question. Would ownership/front office see a division win as validation of their current approach – being conservative in trades and free agency?
I am sure they would but I thought they didn’t care what the fans or media thought. I have always been told that they just execute their plan and shut out the chatter from the masses.September 20, 2019 at 9:01 am #107125
Who said anything about fans or media? The Cardinals brass does not need outsiders to tell them they missed the playoffs three years in a row. Even so, they did not significantly alter their strategy during that time.September 20, 2019 at 9:12 am #107131
I wasn’t trying to be snarky. It was a legitimate question. They have always seemed to work in a vacuum so I am assuming they wouldn’t care about validation one way or the other.
Regardless, I am on record as saying that if we advance further than the Cubs for the first time since 2014 (that doesn’t mean just regular season) that I would get off of Mo’s back. I stand by that. If we go further than Chicago the FO can never make another trade for all I care. I would consider the monkey off our back and the black cloud lifted (or maybe in this case a blue cloud).September 20, 2019 at 9:31 am #107137
Why do you think validation has to be made by others? That is not where I was going at all in posing the question.September 20, 2019 at 9:34 am #107138
Why do you think validation has to be made by others?
Because in a lot of cases it is.
If your question is will the front office feel internal validation for their approach if we win the division then I suppose so.
I am not sure of the intent of your question. If you really want to know if they will feel vindicated then I would say most likely yes. If you are wanting me or others to finally acknowledge what a great job they have done then I would say TBD. Let’s see how the season finishes up.September 20, 2019 at 9:40 am #107142
I wasn’t trying to make it complicated. I was just wondering if they will be more likely to stay their recent years course if they get back to the playoffs this year (vs. changing their strategy more significantly).September 20, 2019 at 9:47 am #107145
Probably so but the Cardinals don’t seem to deviate much from their plan year to year regardless if they make the playoffs or not. In the last couple of years the biggest transactions they have made were firing Matheny, trading for Ozuna, and trading for Goldschmidt. Those moves were most likely due to not enough success on the field but even those moves were done incrementally, not all at once. Everything they do is in increments instead of stacking moves on top of each other. They can only stand so much change at once. That probably won’t change in the future.September 20, 2019 at 9:56 am #107147
I don’t think you can steer the boat by its wake in this case. From 2000-15, the Cards only missed the playoffs four times in 16 years. A miss again this year would be four in four – a significant (negative) deviation from the norm. Even in the leaner early years, the team never missed four times straight, all the way back to when DeWitt took over.September 20, 2019 at 9:57 am #107148
For those that like to make dramatic trade proposals or free agent signings for expensive players keep in mind the payroll situation. We shouldn’t realistically think the Cardinals are going to dramatically increase the payroll for the 2020. They like to be incremental.September 20, 2019 at 10:45 am #107155Minuteman3ParticipantFree
<I am sure they would but I thought they didn’t care what the fans or media thought. I have always been told that they just execute their plan and shut out the chatter from the masses.>
If you ran a billion dollar business would you be taking off-the-wall advice from a bunch of internet trolls?September 20, 2019 at 11:19 am #107169
If you ran a billion dollar business would you be taking off-the-wall advice from a bunch of internet trolls?
Probably not but that doesn’t mean us trolls don’t have an opinion. What is exactly the point of having a message board if all we do is pat each other on the back and say what a great job we are doing? I think that is called groupthink.
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