September 3, 2019 at 10:50 am #104933
Stlcard25, I love the enthusiasm, but I don’t see two things happening….
A) The Cards committing $255M to a pitcher
B) The Astros trading with the Cardinals, the scandal needs to be about 10 years in the past before they work something outSeptember 3, 2019 at 11:12 am #104937Minuteman3ParticipantFree
<gscottarwrote: As for CMart I would only trade him for a big return. Otherwise stick him in the rotation and hope for a quality 175-200 innings. He needs to have a good offseason and do what the front office advises him to do.>
I support trading him because he is too fragile to be a starter and I can’t afford the heart attack pills to have him as a closer any longer. Problem with trading him is that you would also have to include Yadi, his daddy, with him as he can’t function without being slapped into reality by Yadi.September 3, 2019 at 3:22 pm #104951
Not only has CMart been very successful closing this year he has done in a year that there is a near record low conversion rate (66% +/-) for save opportunities.September 3, 2019 at 3:24 pm #104952
Anyone stop to think how bad the Rangers must be? They have two 6 WAR pitchers (neither expected to be that good) and still have a losing record.September 3, 2019 at 3:33 pm #104954
MM3 and STLC25, lets figure out a trade that’s fair for CMart with the assumption they would spend the savings on a starter…. then hopefully Mo reads it and makes it happen?
A guesstimate at a Wade Miley contract is between 3/48 – 4/60, which the Cards should jump on. He’s the most realistic LHSP that they would potentially sign in an “opportunistic” fashion.
I’m still thinking the Pads make a lot of sense for CMart, they want a “top line starter” which they might view CMart as. The Cards don’t seem to need anything in the OF for multiple years unless it’s a significant upgrade, 1B is locked up, 2B is locked up for 2 years, and SS or 3B will be DeJong for multiple years. A LHSP prospect or very high upside prospect anywhere would be the most idea trade option.
M. Gore would be my #1 choice obviously, but as a top 10 prospect, it’s extremely doubtful the Pads would deal him for CMart alone. Luzardo from the A’s would be choice #2, but the way they are ran, it’s highly doubtful he would be dealt unless it was a bigger and more complicated package. The other top LHSP prospects are on division rivals, non-contenders that are rebuilding or the Rays. The Rays already fleeced Mo on the Pham deal, so lets rule them out. That leaves Morejon of the Pads as the last realistic top 100 option for a LHSP. Luis Patino is still likely at least a year away, but looks to be a stud..
Cards get: Patino, Morejon and Kirby Yates
Pads get: CMart, Ponce, Sosa, Arozarena
They get a potential high level starter, a #3-4 starter, MI backup for their young combo of Tatis and Urias, and a high producing OF prospect.
Cards get a 1 yr superstar closer, a very high level pitching prospect and a very good LHSP prospect.
They would likely say no, but that’s getting close….September 3, 2019 at 6:51 pm #104968Cardinals27ParticipantPaid - Annual
I would like Puk or DL Hall to be on our radar. Hall may be more doable, as Baltimore is just beginning it’s rebuild.September 3, 2019 at 9:37 pm #104993mudvilleParticipantPaid - Annual
I didn’t realize that MLB was at a near record low conversion rate for save opportunities. That kind of tells you that we’re not likely to be able to trade for a closer. As successful as CMart has been lately, it’s kind of scary thinking about not having a dependable closer, especially after this evening’s 1-0 win. I like Ozuna a lot. But if it’s a choice between Ozuna and Kluber because of dollars, it might be better to trade for Kluber, and keep CMart as closer. It was reported in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that CMart is ‘relishing’ closing games.September 4, 2019 at 12:23 am #104998
Mud, Unless they approve drug and BAC testing before a pitcher is allowed in a game, I disagreeSeptember 4, 2019 at 12:39 am #104999
Miller, Gant, Brebbia, Gallegos, Fernandez, Webb and eventually Hicks and Whitley are reasons they should go into 2020 with a “best matchup” closer by committee mindset? WeSeptember 4, 2019 at 6:18 am #105006stlcard25ParticipantPaid - Annual
Edwin Diaz might be available for a bargain after his disaster of a 2019. I know the Mets say they want the same value they gave up but would O’Neill or Arozarena be enough? Nothing looks crazy different about him except the results.September 4, 2019 at 8:42 am #105029
I agree about Diaz. He was the best closer in MLB in 2018. Some guys just aren’t cut out for the NY scrutiny. He might thrive in St. Louis. I would give up Tyler or Randy for him.September 4, 2019 at 9:13 am #105039
Does Adolis Garcia have any trade value or should they try to plug him in the 5th OF spot somehow? The 32 HR’s this year are impressive to say the least, but the .301 OBP and K% are the biggest negatives of course (if we can forgive and forget the base running blunder of September 2018).
O’neill, Bader and Fowler are likely the starters next year (I also want Ozuna back, but with the depth, I just don’t see it happening when the need for SP is much greater), but Jose Martinez, Randy A, Lane Thomas and eventually Carlson and Justin Williams will need spots.September 4, 2019 at 9:29 am #105043stlcard25ParticipantPaid - Annual
It’s hard for me to see a clear line of sight for playing time for Adolis Garcia going forward. He’s got the tools to be a player, but it appears as though he will never be able to walk enough or strike out little enough to be a viable MLB player. Maybe he could get a try as a buy low candidate on a team like the Orioles, Tigers or Royals (any of them have any MiLB relief arms we might want?) but with the Cards, every one of those other guys probably should be ahead of him in the pecking order so unless there are loads of injuries he’s probably not going to get out of Memphis.September 4, 2019 at 11:29 am #105055
ST25, what about the Rangers? JMart is awful at 1B, but his bat would make up for his short comings with the glove if you look at what they have there, then he could take over for Choo at DH after his contract runs out. Adolis could play CF or either corner, which they need/could use.
I don’t see any possible way JMart and Garcia would bring back Lynn or Minor on their own, but if the Cards sweeten the pot, they could both be good add on’s that the Rangers need. What do you think they would need to add for either LL or Minor?
September 4, 2019 at 1:05 pm #105064Minuteman3ParticipantFree
- This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by CardsFanInChiTown.
<O’neill, Bader and Fowler are likely the starters next year (I also want Ozuna back, but with the depth, I just don’t see it happening when the need for SP is much greater), but Jose Martinez, Randy A, Lane Thomas and eventually Carlson and Justin Williams will need spots.>
I see ONeil being traded but don’t know for who. Ozuna will be back. Mo may play games like a QO or Extension but I think he will be back. Carlson will be a mid-2020 call-up and I am not sure about Williams. Some good talent may be traded away and I hope not.September 4, 2019 at 6:13 pm #105098forsch31Participant
Why don’t we try and re-shape the 2020 team to be the favorites to sin the WS:
Trade O’Neill, A. Garcia and Leone for Diaz
Re-sign Waino to another make good contract
Trade CMart with the plan of acquiring a high ranked pitching prospectSeptember 5, 2019 at 1:12 pm #105216thejagerParticipantPaid - Annual
Everyone is talking about Cole, and rightly so, but Strasburg is probably going to opt out. I say go after him if we are going to go in for a pitcher.
My quick offseason as of now:
-sign Tony Watson (2yr deal with 3rd yr team option with buyout)
-sign a veteran lefty SP like Alex Wood to a 1yr deal (or go with Waino if he wants another go around)
-re-sign Wieters 1yr with player option?
-trade for Willians AStudillo….superutility, useable backup catcher with unique bat
-trade Oneill + JMart + Montero for Brad Hand (still trade ONeill and JMart if you cant get Hand, target a reliever of value, or decent prospect)
-keep CMart in the pen for now…but really work in offseason and prep for the year to see if he can slot into the rotation again…Reyes health and performance coudl also be a major factor
-Edman is starting 3b
Stras, Jack, Mik, Hudson, Wood/Waino/Cmart……..Gomber, Ponce, Woodford, Reyes, Genesis
CMArt, Watson, Miller, Brebbia, Gant, Gallegos, Helsley, Junior……Hicks, Webb, Reyes
Fowler, Wong, Goldy, Ozuna, DeJong, Yadi, Edman, Bader, pitcher
Wieters, Astudillo, Munoz, Randy, Carp……Carlson
-rotation has a true Ace, plus youth and veterans…Wood provides a vet lefty, or Waino is Waino…Cmart is always an option
-pen is super deep with power arms, two very good lefties, Hicks return makes it crazy…Reyes could be looming to help too
-lineup is the same, good defense, good speed, some thump in the middle, need more contact
-bench gets deeper with added player…but going with 3 catchers allows for all of their bats to be utilized without fearing for no backup catcher, Astudillo has a contact bat that makes him perfect for pinch hitting and moving runners over or sac flies…and his ability to play anywhere in the field makes him hot swappable…Carp adds some thump and along with Astudillo and Munoz protects from sophomore slump in Edman, Carlson is coming and Bader and Fowler need to fear…Randy is a perfect sparkplug and pinch runner
September 5, 2019 at 8:53 pm #105268
- This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by thejager.
Jager, those moves would bump our payroll up to around $200 million, which I don’t think DeWitt would authorize.
But hey it is good to see you post again. Where have you been?September 5, 2019 at 9:00 pm #105270GameCardParticipantPaid - Monthly
Flaherty is a true ace.September 5, 2019 at 10:57 pm #105278
North of $200 million. But when has a jags spitball ever cared about practicality? Not my style but I have accepted it and gotten used to it. I view jags as the Rush Limbaugh of the board (at least on this thread). Not to be taken seriously but extremely entertaining and close enough to reality that if you close your eyes it seems possible.September 6, 2019 at 10:18 am #105287thejagerParticipantPaid - Annual
I have been a busy guy, still watching every game, just can’t post as much.
Nevertheless, i take deep offense at being equated to Rush…i understand the sentiment, but there are few people i’d hate worse to be associated with. I understand the sentiment so i dont take it personally Carioca, but almost anyone else would be far more palatable even if i entirely disagree that my hypotheses are implausible.
Having said that, yes it would be expensive. And would probably require Fowler finding a new home to clear some money. And yes Jack is an Ace….BUT as we saw early on this season he is still not clear of having issues, and having TWO top guys is what we see on the truly top teams out there. a 1-2 punch of Stras and Jack is a series win almost by itself.
moving JMart, Fowler, and maybe CMart (depending on Reyes and several other factors), would go a long way in clearing enough space to make the acquisitions more palatable to the bottom line.
but…let’s look at it…(all dollar amounts are pure guesses)
-Ozuna 5yr 120mil 24
-Stras 7yr 200mil 28.5
-Watson 2yr 15mil 7.5
-Wieters 2yr 10mil 5
-Wood 1yr 8mil
-let’s say we can acquire Hand or Yates or some kind of good backend reliever involving JMart (-2.1)
-so we trade CMart (go for prospects) (-7.25)
-trade Fowler (still at a loss but not as much with his decent year, let’s say of the 33 left owed we are on the line for 10 (5 per year)) (-11.5)
= save 21ish mil
146mil (for 2020) as is
= 198 mil
It is expensive, but it could be done.
-maybe you don’t go for Wood if you can get Waino on a low incentive deal or you roll the dice with the kids for the 5 spot (-6ish)
-maybe you don’t go with Wieters and have another cheap vet 3rd catcher to go with Yadi and Astudillo (-4.5ish)
-maybe you don’t go for Watson and truly depend on Genesis and Webb and keep looking for a vet cheap lefty for reclamation…maybe another go around with Duke or someone similar? (-6ish)
was 198mil pretty quickly goes to: 181.5ish
you have to depend on Carlson and Bader and Randy more
you have to go with kids or a low hanging vet for the 5 spot
you have to go with a less than stellar pedigree lefty
you have to have a less than great backup catcher
-all wouldnt change the feel of the squad…less surety at the leadoff unfortunately but still high end promise….
nevertheless….this is just ONE idea, right now… i have plenty others and will be throwing them out there all offseason and beyondSeptember 6, 2019 at 10:30 am #105292
Sorry jags 🙂September 6, 2019 at 3:38 pm #105321
I agree with Jags on needing an ace or ace 1A in addition to JF. What’s not fair is one team this year has 3 of the top 10 starters in the league. There are some guys higher in WAR, but if I were picking a postseason roster, then Verlander, Cole and Grienke would undoubtedly be in my top 10.
I don’t see Strasburg leaving or them paying enough to land Cole. I view Hudson and Mikolas as a #3’s or 4’s, Hudson has been on a heck of a run, but his numbers don’t suggest it’s sustainable, but he’s still a great rotation piece to have, that’s not what I’m insinuating.
Here are some other FA options for what could be considered at least #2 or 3’s.
– Hyun-Jin Ryu (33) – He’s not leaving LA
– Zack Wheeler (30) – Likely way over priced
– Madison Bumgarner (30) – Possible, but lots of wear and tear on that left limb, but a lefty
– Cole Hamels (36) – Older, but still solid this year, might only take a 2 yr deal and a lefty
– Wade Miley (33) – Not a #1, has had two very good back to back years, older, so might be a reasonable option, and a lefty
– Dallas Keuchel (32) – Not an ace anymore, but will likely have a high price tag
– Alex Wood (29) – A 1 year deal is all I would do, but is a lefty
Out of that group, the realistic ones that I’d be in favor of would be (in order): Hamels (2 yrs max), Miley-(3 max), MadBum (4 max), Wood (1 max)
I’d feel much better about having a rotation in 2020 of JF, Cole Hamels, Mikolas, Hudson and having #5 and fall back options with Waino/CMart/Reyes/Helsley/Woodford/Ponce/Gomber than I do now. However, that still doesn’t address the need for an ace….September 6, 2019 at 3:51 pm #105322
I would like Hamels also but I think it will be difficult to get him out of Chicago. The Cubs will be desperate to bring him back as they have zero in the farm system.September 6, 2019 at 4:59 pm #105324Cardinals27ParticipantPaid - Annual
Alex Wood would be a great target. He surely will bounce back from a disappointing 2019. And an incdentive laden contract at 10-11 mill.
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