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but if you watch Carp and more importantly his arm, I’d disagree with the fact that they are anywhere close to even defensively (at 3B).
I am certainly not advocating that Carp should be on the field. I am just saying that Seager would be a poor replacement in my opinion. I would rather have a platoon of Edman/Munoz than Seager.
The Angels currently have $116M in obligations for 2020 before arbitration and minimum salary players are added. They are nowhere close to the luxury tax. They could afford Cole, Keuchel, and Hamels if they wanted to.
You’d think, but they have a whopping 13 arbitration eligible players this winter. Baseball Reference estimates they will spend $65.7M in arbitration, plus another $13M if they pick up Cole Calhoun’s option for an estimated payroll of $199.7M.
Now, maybe they non tender some guys or make some trades-I’m not that familiar with their roster to know who’s likely to not make it- but there isn’t going to be as much room under the luxury threshold as there might appear.
(For reference, BR has the 4 Cards eligible for Arb-Leone, Rosscup, Gant and Reyes at $20.21M next year and a total payroll of $174.2M. I know Reyes is a mistake and Leone and Rosscup probably will be gone but I wanted to include it all)
Gone or not, Rosscup is not on the 40-man roster.
One needs to be careful with the data on some of these sites. I have found Spotrac misleading at times, for example. B-R is the best for stats, but not a go-to site for contract info, IMO.
card25, here are their arbitration eligible players:
Brian Goodwin, Tommy LaStella, Justin Bour, Andrew Heaney, Nick Tropeano, Cam Bedrosian, Luis Garcia, Hansel Robles, Keynan Middleton, Max Stassi and Kevan Smith. JC Ramirez was also on the list on Baseball Reference but he was outrighted off the 40-man roster. Sam Freeman is also not on the 40-man roster. Of the ones remaining, Bour, Smith and Stassi are the most likely to be non-tendered or released prior to arbitration. I’m not saying any of them will be gone but they are the most likely ones.
It looks to me like the Angels have some decisions and some possible trades to think about.
I think Cot’s is the best when it comes to contracts.
Yes the Angels have a lot of arbitration guys. I don’t know how many they will bring back or not but I do know they are one of the larger revenue teams in the league, have the best player in the world who has played in one playoff series in his career, and have a desperate need for pitching. I would expect them to be very active.
Reyes won’t be arb eligible since he was sent down and his clock wasn’t ticking during his time on the DL (so they gain an extra year of control). Gant I believe should be the only Arb player they have this offseason, after the year he has had he deserves a nice little bump. Leone and Rosscup should be gone I’d assume.
I almost wrote “After trading for him, I’m curious if they try to sign Cingrani as a BP piece on a make good deal”. Then I looked at his numbers, and they are actually worse as a reliever, that doesn’t happen often.
Not a rumor but an idea…
I dunno, but it's fun to think about: Jim Bowden thinks the Red Sox may trade Mookie Betts this offeseason–and that the #STLCards make the most sense for a deal. #TimeToFly https://t.co/T18E2swHPz pic.twitter.com/ZjUKW41gS5
— JBIF Stupid Town ™ (@johnrabe) August 20, 2019
Betts is intriguing of course but I think number 7 on Bowden’s list (Kluber) is a better fit for the Cardinals. Bowden lists the Cards as a potential suitor for Kluber as well.
Betts would cost a lot in a trade I’d think, but he’d likely be an All Star in his year with the Cards. Kluber might help but buying his age 33 and 34 seasons would be a risk.
I can’t read the article of course, but the guy I’d like to target if we have to give up a Carlson, Gorman, Flaherty level young player would be Francisco Lindor. The Indians and Cards seem to like to trade I guess so maybe they talk about Kluber too at some point.
Lindor would be interesting to discuss. The Indians probably can’t afford him long term. There is no telling what we would have to give up.
Would DeJong move to 3B?
What are the chances that Carlson or Flaherty ever become the type of elite player that Lindor is? Pretty low, IMO. If you want elite talent sometimes you have to give up good prospects or young players.
And Gscottar, in my mind Wong goes as part of the trade for cost savings. So Dejong either goes to 2nd if Carpenter rebounds or 3rd if he can’t with Edman to 2nd.
Flaherty is the closest thing the Cards have to an ace right now and still very young, so I would consider him having elite potential and for that reason, the most untradeable guy in the whole organization. As far as extensions go, he’d be my number one target for the offseason, but that’s a whole separate topic.
Carlson is still a huge unknown obviously, but for two years of Lindor, in his 26 and 27 year old seasons, I would include him in a heartbeat. The Indians also are in dire need of OF help, and payroll help. I just looked at their team stats and they could use at least two good OF’s for next year since Puig will be gone (who the heck will sign him?? Once again a whole separate topic).
Indians get: Carlson, Lane Thomas, Adolis Garcia, Ryan Helsley, Junior Fernandez, Genesis Cabrera (They save roughly $20M+)
Cards get: Lindor and Brad Hand
Too much or little?
CFICT wrote:
<Too much or little?>Bat s–t crazy. So we have a shortstop and not much else. Anybody that says too little needs to take two aspirins and call their shrink in the morning.
Why do so many folks think we need to trade away half our young players to get one player – no matter how good he is? Did Pujols make the Angels winners. Has Harper put the Phillies in the playoffs? I think you get the point.
Well Lindor and Hand equals two players, not one. In fact Lindor and Hand are probably the Indian’s two best players. Having said that I am not a fan of trading Carlson for anyone. I would be more in favor of structuring a deal for Kluber and Hand without giving up Carlson or Gorman. Yes, easier said than done.
CFICT, my initial reaction is that is too much. I am not sure that I want Hand enough to give up Fernandez. I don’t have a problem giving up a lot to get Lindor, however. He could be a difference maker. It also puts Carpenter on the bench unless the Cardinals also trade Wong somewhere.
If the Cardinals did make that trade, they would also need to try to re-sign Ozuna.
gscott, the way I looked at it is I don’t know what Carlson will produce in the majors but we do know what Lindor has done and he isn’t even out of his prime, yet. Lindor’s bat is probably close to Carlson’s ceiling but Lindor plays the premium position. It then allows the Cardinals to move another good bat and defender in DeJong to either 3B or 2B. The overall loss is 5 years in age between Lindor and Carlson.
Indians get: Carlson, Lane Thomas, Adolis Garcia, Ryan Helsley, Junior Fernandez, Genesis Cabrera (They save roughly $20M+)
Cards get: Lindor and Brad Hand
Too much or little?
That feels about right, although personally I’d like to see Wong go to save us a little of the cash.
Maybe something like Wong, Carlson, Woodford, Thomas, Fernandez, and Fagalde. Think of them as separate trades…would the first three get Lindor? Would the second three get Hand?
Lindor/Dejong up the middle would be at least as good as we have on defense, and the offense would be upgraded too. Hand would better the bullpen for sure.
SC25, the reason I didn’t include Wong is that their goal, and only plausible reason at this point to trade him, is likely still to simply “Shed payroll”. Also, the Cardinals don’t currently have a playable 3B in my opinion, so moving DeJong there with Lindor, Wong and Goldy would have to be the best defensive IF in MLB (Dakota Hudson would thrive).
That would be a great defensive infield, to be sure. I don’t know that I’m ready to give up on Carp for 2020 though. We’ve done that before and it hasn’t worked out. I’d also think Wong would be an attractive piece as their 2B spot hasn’t been great.
Also, while payroll now certainly is a factor, the main reason I’d see the Tribe as willing to trade Lindor would be the big contract he’d likely get in two years. I’d think he will get at least Machado money, and probably more. I’m not sure they can afford that with all their other impending payroll upgrades so he’d be an interesting option. Their fans might revolt, though.
This is why fans aren’t GM’s.
Adding a little more substance and depth to your comments might be helpful instead of just being condescending.
I think Kluber would be an interesting buy low (if you can) candidate. He has had a bad year, and may, or may not come back before the end of the season. If the Indians would eat 8 to 10 million maybe trading Oviedo and Garcia might be enough. Maybe expand the deal if Fowler would waive his NTC, and we would kick in cash.
I wouldn’t trade Carlson, or Flaherty, now for two years of anybody including Lindor. Two years, then start a rebuid? No thanks. Also, I can’t get excited about adding a pitcher like Kluber. He would be just a fill-in until the right guy comes around. For next year’s rotation we could add CMart and fill the fifth spot with Gant, Gomber, Ponce de Leon or maybe even Wacha or Wainwright. Make the bullpen even better by adding Will Smith from SF, and trading an outfielder for a closer.
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