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They need 2 great arms in the pen. Miller fills a huge need as a lefty and that shut down relief we so desperately need. Everyone acknowledges the importance of relief pitching and salaries are way up. But yet we still try to get it on the cheap, sans Brett Cecil. This just highlights what happens when you half-arse something.
Milwaukee’s bullpen was a game changer more than any other reason including MVP yelich. I would put all my efforts / resources into this. With Goldy, we have plenty of offense. Right now unfortunately, Miller has been linked with both Milwaukee and the Cubs.
Miller had a concerning year with the shoulder, but if he is healthy, there is no one better. I would also look at Kimbrel. Yeah, going to over pay, although him wanting 6 years is a little scary. Maybe 4 and record per year for a closer? Only tidbit I will add, is if Martinez is a possible candidate for the closer position and shows capacity to be a great one, then signing a starter or trading for a starter is another way to go. This team with a real, dominant bull pen would be World series Candidates.
side note – can we try very hard to sign Mikolas to extension as soon as possible
to get 1 of the many FA for next year settled.Rockies are serious about upgrading at first base. They made a sincere trade offer to Arizona for Paul Goldschmidt before his trade to St. Louis, Jeff Bridich said. He was not, however, surprised by the Cardinals as Goldschmidt’s end spot.
— Nick Groke (@nickgroke) December 11, 2018
Facing Goldy is not fun for a skipper. pic.twitter.com/g2UMhkGiYc
— MLB (@MLB) December 12, 2018
More respect from opponents.
Dodgers manager Dave Roberts said he plans to send #STLCards 1B Paul Goldschmidt flowers and hopes he loves St Louis and stays to keep him out of the NL West. Calls him one of his favorite players
— Bob Nightengale (@BNightengale) December 12, 2018
Isn’t this the truth.
“I think the #Cubs and #Brewers have been more impressed from the acquisition of Paul Goldschmidt than most Cardinal fans,” – @Ben_Fred. #STLCards #WinterMeetings
— KTRS Sports (@BigSportsShow) December 12, 2018
I can only speak for myself but it is not about being “impressed” or not. It was hoping for something different. He is a great player but again just my take short of winning the WS in 2019 not sure what the long term goal was here. My hope is they won’t resign him just because the age factor.
Bringing this quote over from another thread…
NJ315
Goldy doesn’t make any sense long term
Is this based on your evaluation of Goldy as a player, or simply based on expected aging curves?
I would argue that a player like Goldschmidt has a good chance to hold up relatively well into his mid 30s. He’s pretty athletic, playing a position that doesn’t require extreme athleticism, and has a profile that isn’t as prone to the extreme drops in BABIP that usually accompany big declines (uses all fields so not a pull hitter). Albert had the same profile, I understand, so there is some risk…but Albert also had a nagging soft tissue injury that sapped whatever athleticism he did have left. There are also guys like Yadi and Adrian Beltre (Carlos Beltran and even Matt Holiday for just distant Cards players) who have acquitted themselves quite well into their later years, so who knows if Goldschmidt can’t be that guy?
I could easily see Goldy OPSing .800ish +/-.020 at age 36, which of course might be found cheaper in the system, but if he mixes a couple .900/4-5 WAR seasons into a 5 year deal is not an albatross.
Let’s see how the year plays out before we declare something nonsense, shall we?
I hope they don’t resign him. My preference no long term contracts at age 32. If he has a great year he will be looking for 6 years at least and a lot of money since he already gave a huge discount to Arizona and it will be his last chance to cash in. If you think that tying a lot of money and years to a 32 yr old is a good plan we can agree to disagree. So I stand by take long term Goldy makes zero sense.
That’s a fair take and probably how the Cards’ FO has seen things over the years. It’s also a big reason why Dexter Fowler is the level of free agent we are able to sign, due to risk aversion and rigid cost analysis. It keeps you in contention but rarely wins big.
Goldie’s service is ONLY for ONE season, enjoy the moment it will be gone before you know it.
Playoffs?
Not so fast.
I think this was a great deal. Sometimes, really most times in personal planning as well as building an MLB team, you make decisions with the long-term in mind. But sometimes you do things for today. Like the professors told us in Economics or Finance classes in college, paraphrasing somewhat: “You plan for the long-term, but keep in mind that in the long-term you are dead, so do not forget about the present day”.
Goldys #1 similarity score is HOF Jeff Bagwell. He was fine through age 36, but neither Jeff or Goldy are Pujols type 1Bmen.
Both are more athletic.
So you’re willing to sign him long-term betting he is Bagwell but not Adrian Gonzalez or Mo Vaughn #2 and #3 on that list.
I don’t see Mo Vaughn as a good comp for Goldschmidt at all. Maybe as a hitter, but Mo was never very athletic. He was also a bad fielder.
Gonzalez maybe is a slightly better comp as a good fielder and hitter, but without the good base running skills. Still, Gonzalez was worth 12.6 WAR in his 5 full years with LA (age 31-35). If Goldy gives you that, that’s worth decent money. Gonzo was also starting from a worse position when he got to LA, WAR wise, than Goldy is here in St Louis.
Wouldn’t it be better to wait and see how Goldschmidt plays this season? I am interpreting that some do not care. They believe they already know the answer.
What I do not understand is how some can be so certain about something which is inherently uncertain? For every comp that says X, someone will find one that says Y. We have no idea of the money or years or anything else, making any blanket statement highly questionable at this point.
Yes, the better the athletic skills, the slower the decline.
Holliday was fine through age 35, and still above avg at 36.I’m looking at the Goldy trade with the Holliday trade / signing as the template.
jj-cf-stl, I guess I was unclear. I think talk is great. That is why we are here. What I am questioning is this:
“It is a great deal if they do not resign Goldy.”
No exceptions. No qualifications. End of discussion.
Wouldn’t it make more sense to discuss how many years and how much money might be palatable than being closed to the basic concept of an extension?
What I meant to say about waiting was that I would hope that if Goldy had a really good 2019 season, it might soften the already-made up minds that no extension would be good. It would provide another important data point in trying to project his late-career curve. The last three seasons in Arizona were very consistent, all in the range of 5.0 to 5.2 fWAR.
I already explained why several times it wouldn’t be a great deal if we resign Goldy. Signing a 32 yr old to a long-term contract is not a good idea. Not a risk that in my opinion is worth taking.
NJ, you have made some important assumptions that no one could know will be true.
How long is long? How long is too long? How much money is ok? How much money is too much?
For some it is Bryce Harper or bust. They think if the Cardinals don’t sign Harper they should just cancel the season or better yet just cease to exist as a franchise.
Really assumptions??? It will be his last contract would he take 3 yrs? of course not. Would he take 5 yrs maybe but that is too long for a 32 yr old in my opinion. He already gave a huge discount so the money has to be significant that’s not an assumption. Taking a long contract for Goldy would not be a smart move. You want to be long contracts give them to players entering their prime. This is not about Harper or bust. This is about trading for a player who has been great during his prime and then assuming that he is going to age well he is Bagwell not Pujols or Cano. I rather have Machado than Goldy or Arenado next year. This is my opinion based on the history on long term contracts for player on the wrong side of 30 not assumptions. Invest in good players that are young and good. But you are right maybe he will take 3 yrs at 30M but I would not bet on it. As for this constant attack about Harper or bust I never said anything about that and really sick and tired of hearing this. I am very excited for 2019 and having Goldy in the team it should be a fun season. My dislike is only for signing Goldy long term that’s it and that’s a next year issue.
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