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2021
2B Edman
LF Carlson
1B Goldy
3B Arenado
SS DeJong
DH Carp
C Molina
RF Fowler
CF Bader2022
2B Edman
LF Carlson
1B Goldy
3B Arenado
SS DeJong
DH Gorman
C Molina/Knizner/Herrera
RF O’Neill/Montero
CF BaderCarpenter is DH if we have one and a bench lefty bat and occasional fill in for injuries.
His last couple years and especially last years production doesn’t warrant anything more than a bench spot. Which is still only allowable due to his massive contract.
I’m not worried about giving carp playing time until he earns it. If he tears the cover off the ball in ST then we can talk again after he shows something.
At least Fowler shows glimpses of being mediocre last year before his injury. And compared to the other OF options outside of Carlson he has just as much a shot at starting.
I want carp to be a beast. But until he shows something I’m not going out of my way to be concerned at finding him playing time at anyone else’s expense.
Even Sosa’s playing time IMO who has more upside and defensive flex.
Carp is a bench lefty power bat. That’s it.
I think that’s pretty dead on gscott
I do think Thomas and Williams might get a shot at platoon times in the oF ahead of Montero. And I also think Gorman gets some 1b and maybe 3b to allow Goldy and Arenado to rest and DH
I think there’s a good chance we add some sort of free agent or trade bat after 2021 to bump 2022 up. Perhaps it’s Michael Conforto if the Mets don’t lock him up, or maybe a SS to move Dejong to 2B and Edman to super sub. But unless both Carlson and O’Neill break out next year I’d bet on an outfield addition.
Why do people try and move Edman off 2B…it is his natural and he is the player that makes the Cardinals go? I also would bat Edmans second behind Carlson.
just saying a little patience would not hurt for some fans.Cards have showed patience with Plummer so fans are being dumb by thinking Gorman should be traded. It just is quite ridiculous IMO.The smart move is to develop Gorman at 1B-3B-LF….
As for his lack of speed..Greg Luzinski played LF…so fans are being dumb by thinking Gorman should be traded.
I don’t recall seeing anyone advocate that Gorman should be traded because of this deal.
I think the acquisition of Arenado probably gives Bader more playing time unless O’Neill really hits well in spring training. Having more offense in the OF is not as much of a priority as is was prior to the acquisition. Bader’s elite defense starts to be more of a priority than another bat.
GC, everyone sees the potential in Gorman’s bat is greater than Edman’s and Gorman is able to play 2B. That leaves Edman as a super sub unless he is starting in the OF or Gorman is the DH. However, it probably won’t be until 2022 that Gorman gets that chance. Sosa also has as much potential as Edman, as well.
I really like Sosa and am glad he was not part of this deal. I am surprised that the Rockies did not insist on him being part of the package, and maybe they did but the Cards would not part with him.
I can he Sosa pushing DeJong this year if Paul goes into another one of those extended funks he is prone to.
Too early for me to judge the trade a fleecing GS. I’d rather wait to see who the clubs announce as traded.
If Gorman can play 2B, he can play LF. He’s 6’1″ 210 lbs.
Holliday was 6’4″‘, 235 lbs. Gorman might have his limitations in LF, but the Cards may elect to get his bat into the lineup any way they can when he’s ready.The ideal would be for O’Neill to break out and play up to his ceiling. Maybe Gorman goes to DH then (if it comes to the NL). Or slides in at 2B. Wouldn’t that be interesting……a lineup with Arenado, Goldschmidt, DeJong, Carlson, Gorman, and O’Neill. Talk about power.
It’s funny how we went from frustrated fans wondering when Spring training would start as our biggest issue, to the Arenado trade where all sorts of possible directions the Cards can go now.
Some of my biggest questions are:
Will Arenado have opt out options?
Will he exercise opt outs?
The $50 mill being sent from the Rockies will be in what in what form?
Will Arenado fare worse with the bat now that half his games wil not be at Coors field?
Will the Cards dump salary or salaries of Carpenter, Martinez, and to a lesser degree Fowler? Fowler would have to be replaced, as there was no clear standout last year of our youngsters save Carlson.
My thoughts on the trade are that if we get 2 years good production or more from Arenado this will go down as an excellent trade
I will be most sad to see Rondon leave, as I remember seeing him pitch in Peoria and he was very impressive then. But it is understandable that you have to give something to get an elite player like Arenado.
My only concern with arenado is his down year last year not the coors field thing. I’m hopeful it was just a shoulder thing and possibly he lagged a bit because of how he viewed ownership though I’m hoping that’s not the case, cause it’s never good to not go all out just because your team is losing or you perceive the owners to not be putting in the effort. You play for your teammates not the owners.
If Gorman can play 2B, he can play LF. He’s 6’1″ 210 lbs.
Holliday was 6’4″‘, 235 lbs. Gorman might have his limitations in LF, but the Cards may elect to get his bat into the lineup any way they can when he’s ready.If Gorman can handle 2B, that’s where he’d be most likely to play. Nearly anyone can play LF. I would still keep him on the infield until there was no choice but to move him out.
Another option for Edman may be CF. He’s pretty fast and as a full time CFer he could get you through a couple of seasons where his switch hitting could be useful.
Anyway, it is a good problem to have. I think we have the potential for a real impact lineup if things go well.
Yea anyone can play left field til a ball bounces out of their glove and cost you a playoff game and chance to advance in playoffs.
Yea anyone can play left field til a ball bounces out of their glove and cost you a playoff game and chance to advance in playoffs.
Of course there are individual plays that mean a lot. The point was that LF may be the lowest peg on the defensive spectrum besides DH. At 20 years old, there’s plenty of time to move him to LF if needed down the road, so no need to do it prematurely.
Willie – the biggest difference is that Holliday always played in left, because of his defensive limitations. You have to be quick and have a good glove to play 3B.
Gorman fits that. Maybe not great outright speed, but good glove eye coordination.Long-time Denver Post columnist rips their GM and ownership, telling fans they are dumber than the trade if they support the team in 2021.
Congrats, Rockies! By paying St. Louis $50 million to steal Nolan Arenado's gold glove, general manager Jeff Bridich making the dumbest trade in Colorado sports history. My column: https://t.co/VTXNIE6vdT via @denverpost
— Mark Kiszla (@markkiszla) January 30, 2021
Holliday was a third baseman for his first three years in the minors until switching between High-A and Double-A, which is basically the same place Gorman is right now.
P.S. I am not advocating any moves. Just setting the record straight.
Well unless there this trade gets called off or there is a injury, gorman isn’t going to be playing third much anytime soon. Just because you can play third doesn’t mean you can play outfield well. Quickness isn’t actually a total need at third also cause if it was, carpenter couldn’t play it. It’s mostly a position of reaction which doesn’t neccessarily mean quick. Gorman may be able to learn a different position adequately enough but if you are just going to be adequate defensively, then that players offense has to be well above that or the team will probably move him. I feel he will start out as a bench player anyway and perhaps something else will open up.
Has anyone added up the market value of all the trade pieces (Gomber etc) that Rosenthal has listed? Is there somewhere I can go to learn how to do that myself? I’d love to see their value compared to the $50m. The Athetic reporter Groke states that the $50m is up front
In the worst-case scenario for St. Louis, if Arenado chooses to leave after next season, the Cardinals will still net $15 million (the difference between his $35 million salary for 2021 and the proposed $50 million they get from the Rockies).
The trouble is Brian, holliday was not a very good left fielder. A non baseball person could see that. I guess you could say he hit well enough to justify it. I was big on the Cardinals getting him though to me, he didn’t hit as well for us as I thought he would and I also didn’t watch him enough to see how bad he was in outfield. Being a defensive person, I probably wouldn’t have been so gung ho on getting him.
Too early for me to judge the trade a fleecing
Exactly right, JJ. I don’t want to get overly giddy until this transaction is official and we see all of details. I totally subscribe to the old adage “if it looks too good to be true….watch the heck out!” And this proposed deal unfortunately fits those words like a glove. I really worry about some of my friends here. If this deal were to fall apart, I honestly fear for your safety. Remember gang…….it is only a game….you have your whole life still in front of you.
If we do get the big guy, how good would Wong fit into the defensive side of things? Goldy-Wong-DeJong-Arenado. I’m thinking hard, but am having great difficulty coming up with a better defensive infield.
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