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C27 asked:
How can a $15 million year be added? I thought you couldn’t take a large pay cut year to year. Not that I am complaining, just curious.
That is an important unanswered question that we won’t be able to sort out until all the financial details are disclosed and the deal is done.
Will Arenado defer out a large amount of his 2021 and 2022 salaries?
Will the Rockies’ $50 million be front- or back-end loaded?
Will the Cardinals have to do a salary dump trade elsewhere to save money?
etc…Glad Gorman is here.Just 20 years old and can play 3B,learn 1B and OF.LH bat .Cards have waited years for Nick Plummer so why not keep Gorman. Continue to develop Gorman at3B-1B-LF-RF.Gorman is still likely 2 years away from StLouis and Montero has not been dazzling,Mendoza looks like glove first 3B…
bb, I wish Gomber nothing but the best, but this excerpt from BA’s scouting report on him outlines what worries me.
“Gomber is a flyball pitcher prone to giving up home runs when he doesn’t spot his fastball precisely…”
Not a good formula for success at Coors. It was a concern for him in the minors, but in his limited action in 2020 (29 innings), he allowed just one long ball. So maybe he has improved.
Bw52 said:
Gorman is still likely 2 years away from StLouis…
If that was the case, that he doesn’t arrive until 2023, his prospect stock would drop. Most believe he will reach StL in 2022. Prior to this trade, I thought if all went well, we could see him late in 2021.
Can’t see how Plummer relates to Gorman at all…
Craziness
Love it
So why all the concern about Gorman? DH is definitely coming just like Goldys age is going up.
Gorman being bale to learn 1b should be do-able and the transition from Goldy to DH or Gorman and Goldy splitting 1b and DH seems a totally fine plan.
Keep the elite defensive OFs in O’Neill and Bader. Any offense is welcomed. Carlson plays well and can hit.
Yadi gives us one more year to transition to Knizner which probably transitions to knizner herrera split.
Gomber Rondon Woodford is tough. But it clears up the pecking order some. Liberatore Thompson and Oviedo look to be primed for transitioning into the rotation over the next couple years while Kim Waino Cmart transition out. Ponce Reyes provide depth enough
I’d love one more bat. In a perfect world I’d love Merrifield. To play OF some 2b and lead off. But you could go with a move like Gallo who is what he is but what he is a young and his power is crazy combined with his defense. Like a lefty O’Neill.
Here’s my 2021 lineup as of today. I am going to assume there will be no DH.
1. Edman 2B
2. Carlson LF
3. Arenado 3B
4. Goldschmidt 1B
5. DeJong SS
6. Molina C
7. Fowler RF
8. Bader CFr/Esteemed Rat
It would make sense for the Rockies to trade Gomber at some point. A lefty with height will be appealing to the right team. He certainly has made an unexpected contribution to the Cardinals.
A random thought. The Yadi plays everyday thing needs to evolve this year.
Another random thought is I would like to see how DeJong would look hitting between Goldy and Anenado. That could be epic.
Gorman will probably get a look at 2B. We have basically nothing in the pipeline for that position and it’s not nearly so rigorous as it once was. They could still play Edman or a glove guy there sometimes, or move Gorman to DH sometimes. The reports on Gorman’s glove aren’t so bad that you make him an automatic DH or even give a thought to a move to the OF just yet.
Montero, though, becomes a candidate to be a corner OF/DH.
I like Edman and I’m really excited to see what he can do as an everyday second baseman. But Edmundo Sosa has bulked up. He was definitely getting noticed last spring. I hope Shildt gives him a good look this spring.
Edman is the starting 2B all the time.
I don’t mind Edman, but if Gorman can handle 2B he will move Edman back to his super sub role, zero doubt about it.
Some random thoughts….
I am still wrapping my head around that this is actually happening. I can’t determine if this offseason was just one giant head fake by DeWitt and Mo or if they actually intended to have a very prudent and cheap offseason and this move just escalated recently. We know it has been talked about for years but maybe the Rockies finally relented on some of the parameters which put everything into motion.
Regardless, this makes the Cardinals the prohibitive favorite to win the NLC. We still probably aren’t on the same level as the Dodgers, Padres, Braves, and Nats but we have to feel that we can now compete with those teams much more seriously in the postseason.
After years and years of cautiousness and conservatism our front office finally stepped up and made a big boy, aggressive move. I highly applaud it. This is the kind of move a big market team makes.
It will be interesting to find out who exactly is going to Colorado but if we were actually able to swing this deal while keeping Gorman, Carlson, Montero, Liberatore, Knizner, Oviedo, Herrera, etc…. I just find that amazing. This was truly a salary dump by the Rockies. The Rockie front office must have finally realized they had no leverage and needed to cut bait and move on. Their fan base has to be devastated right now with such a little return if the reports are true.
I am ecstatic we are keeping Gorman. This is huge. I view it as an insurance policy on Arenado’s opt outs. If Arenado does opt out, which I find unlikely, we still have Gorman ready to step in. In the meantime, will Gorman get work at 2B in the minors this year or in the OF? He could also DH and of course give Arenado and Goldy a day off in the future. We should be able to find him at bats.
I am not thrilled about the opt outs and deferred salary but overall this was a masterful move by Mo, assuming the players going back truly aren’t top 10 in our system.
The much discussed spending spree next winter can now be scaled back, although, the Cardinals will still have a lot of money coming off the books next winter. We will still be in position for another significant move or two if we want. It is an enviable position to be in. Kudos to Mo. I can give props when they are due. We went from a frozen stove to a scorching stove in 24 hours.
I haven’t crunched the numbers but the eye test tells me that Arenado is a very similar player to Scott Rolen. What do you guys think? Also, I am not worried about the Coors Field splits. We had great result with Matt Holliday and Larry Walker. DJ Lemahieu has also thrived away from Coors.
Whew, I am mentally exhausted…. 🙂
The problem I see is if we don’t have the dh this year which wouldn’t bother me, what about carpenter. I have no problem with him pitch hitting and situational starting but I’m not sure they will pay him that much to sit mostly. Like I said, I’m fine with it but the Cardinals haven’t been really willing to do that.
No one in St. Louis is complaining about owner Bill DeWitt's refusal to add payroll tonight. The #STLCards are going for the jugular in the NL Central, and might as well put the champagne on ice now.
— Bob Nightengale (@BNightengale) January 30, 2021
Nolan Arenado: He get his trade, and the team he wanted to be traded to: #STLCards.
Cardinals: They get their prized 3B, and establish themselves as overwhelming favorite in the NL Central.#Rockies: They unload their star who didn't want to be there, and get marginal prospects.— Bob Nightengale (@BNightengale) January 30, 2021
The #STLCards might as well put the band back together now and sign catcher Yadier Molina and second baseman Kotlen Wong.
— Bob Nightengale (@BNightengale) January 30, 2021
Really, there's no reason for the two opt-outs. The #STLCards will love Nolan Arenado, and he'll love St. Louis right back. He has been raving about the organization for years, and loved the idea of playing for the Cardinals.
— Bob Nightengale (@BNightengale) January 30, 2021
I haven’t crunched the numbers but the eye test tells me that Arenado is a very similar player to Scott Rolen. What do you guys think? Also, I am not worried about the Coors Field splits. We had great result with Matt Holliday and Larry Walker. DJ Lemahieu has also thrived away from Coors.
When Rolen came over to St Louis he had an .877 career OPS (126 OPS+) in Philadelphia and a +52 DRS (he finished with +175 for his whole career) for a career 29.2 WAR in 7 seasons.
Arenado comes over with an .890 OPS (120 OPS+) and +120 DRS for a career 39.1 WAR in 8 seasons.
MLB writer from FanSided.
I, for one, have no idea what the Rockies are doing.
— Robert Murray (@ByRobertMurray) January 30, 2021
“This is the kind of move a big market team makes.” From above.
I disagree. A big market team throws a pile of money at a problem and just buys what they want. This was the kind of deal a mid market team makes. With the contracts coming off the books after this year and the cash coming with Arenado it is not a payroll buster at all. Instead of cash, Mo used other resources and took advantage of a situation that existed here with the big contracts ending, and in Denver with Arenado wanting to leave and able to opt out after this year. Not big market like at all.
“I, for one, have no idea what the Rockies are doing.”
They looked at the LAD and SDP rosters, took another look at their maxed out budget, dropped back 15 yards and punted.
I disagree. A big market team throws a pile of money at a problem and just buys what they want. This was the kind of deal a mid market team makes. With the contracts coming off the books after this year and the cash coming with Arenado it is not a payroll buster at all. Instead of cash, Mo used other resources and took advantage of a situation that existed here with the big contracts ending, and in Denver with Arenado wanting to leave and able to opt out after this year. Not big market like at all.
I agree with a lot of that bling but the fact is there aren’t many mid market teams signing up to take on that kind of financial obligation, whether it be trade or free agency.
You guys are speculating about Gorman to 2b….what about Carp? Do you think he will get some games at 2b as Tommy keeps being used as a super sub?
1982willie wrote:
The problem I see is if we don’t have the dh this year which wouldn’t bother me, what about carpenter. I have no problem with him pitch hitting and situational starting but I’m not sure they will pay him that much to sit mostly. Like I said, I’m fine with it but the Cardinals haven’t been really willing to do that.
This is a good point. And one I have been wondering about.
What do we do with Carpenter?????
r/Esteemed Rat
They looked at the LAD and SDP rosters, took another look at their maxed out budget, dropped back 15 yards and punted.
Fixed it for you. 🙂
They looked at the LAD and SDP rosters, took another look at their maxed out budget, dropped back 15 yards and got fleeced.
You guys are speculating about Gorman to 2b….what about Carp? Do you think he will get some games at 2b as Tommy keeps being used as a super sub?
I don’t think so. I would keep Carp away from 2B.
I suspect he will be DH (if there is one), bench bat, give Arenado and Goldy a day off, or will be traded. The offseason isn’t over yet.
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