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Bill DeWitt, Jr. has never fired a manager before.
Who has the better overall winning percentage, BW, Mike Matheny or Joe G? And who had the better players and higher payroll?
What a travesty this is. Mo builds a roster of underperforming, me first players and then puts the blame on the manager.
DeWitt fired his GM 12 months after his team won the World Series. The reason was internal turmoil. Matheny’s rope was much, much longer.
The manager/head coach is always the second to go in any sport. First was the wholesale coaching changes we saw here during and after last season. None of that changed the negative trajectory. If the new manager does not show progress, then the GM/PBO will be next to feel the heat.
I’m getting drunk for joy! I wanted this buffoon gone for a very long time.
Now while the manager is gone and that is a good thing. Other moves need to take place.
I don’t think they’ll make a move until the offseason but It will be a short list. Girardi is going to be #1. Who else?
Mo should have gone before MM.
I hate to say this, but some of the problems have been because of Mo’s personality. Not one that creates optimism and enthusiasm.What a travesty this is. Mo builds a roster of underperforming, me first players and then puts the blame on the manager.
That is why I think the clubhouse situation was worse than we were lead to believe. Management would not have done this had they felt Matheny was not at fault. Again, maybe management messed up. But they know what is going on and must be of the opinion that Mike is mostly at fault, along with the hitting coaches, for not getting the most from his players.
I mean, how often do the Cardinals change managers mid-season? Was the last Cardinal manager fired in mid-season Vern Rapp? And ironically, Rapp had lost the clubhouse, which I think plays a big part in what is happening here. Also, when does a team over .500 can it’s manager?
Things have to be bad in Cardinal-land for this to happen.
bccran, in your unwavering loyalty to Matheny, you are disagreeing with DeWitt.
If Mo had been fired instead, the 2018 Cardinals would likely have continued on their mediocre path and more and more fans would be unhappy, staying home and not watching games. This is about re-creating hope about the team playing tomorrow.
That doesn’t mean other changes are not needed, but they will take more time.
PS – Just recall that Ken Boyer was fired early in the 1980 season. Still, the Cardinals do not do this too often.
I think it would be dumb to fire the manager /Coaches and then NOT continue the process of retooling the roster.Fowler,Pham,Carpenter,Gyorko,Holland etc; are not the future.Saying “let
s see what happens for the rest of the season is like putting a coat of paint on old rotten fences instead of buying new lumber.I dont think just replacing the manager will turn this team into a real contender.So not trading some older/underperforming players for younger prospects would be doing a half-ass job .All four non-interim managers prior to TLR left during the year.
Torre was fired during 1995
Herzog left during 1990
Boyer during 1980
Rapp during 1978Brian – you and I both know what has been going on in that clubhouse. You far better than I.
I know you have to be careful, but it would be nice for you to offer your honest assessment of the situation. What was going on between MM and certain players (don’t mention their names). What he expected as far as professionalism, grit, and how to perform on multiple levels when they put the Cardinal uniform on. And how some of them reacted to that.Mo should have gone before MM.
I agree with you on this. Unless Mo / Girsch can become much more effective at what they do, the Cards aren’t going to achieve the level of success we all want, no matter who replaces MM.
Where I disagree with you is I believe MM’s pink slip should’ve been generated on page two of the same print job as Mo’s.
Thanks Brian. Sheesh forgot about Torre as well. Did not count Herzog since he left of his own accord. The one big blemish on Whitey’s tenure as Cardinal manager. His teams were up-and-down a lot, but still he was good, then suddenly had enough.
This firing reminds some of the Rapp situation, as I mentioned earlier. There seems to be a lot of discord within the ranks, and that is fueled by a rift between the manager and the players.
Matheny has reportedly had issues with a lot of guys, including franchise icon Yadier Molina. Seeing the team play poor baseball for a couple of months, after last year’s mistake-prone season and all the personal drama that was going on, and management finally had enough.
It’s a real shame when people refer to a solid, fine man as a buffoon. Way out of line.
Again, he maybe a fine man and a class act, he was NOT a major league manager. Change was needed and change occurred. Yes other changes are needed and I agree MO needs to be sent packing too, but what happened tonight was needed.
Though it was after the season, as recently as 2017, both John Farrell (Boston) and Joe Girardi (NYY) were fired – even though their last teams made the playoffs.
Though it was after the season, as recently as 2017, both John Farrell (Boston) and Joe Girardi (NYY) were fired – even though their last teams made the playoffs.
Yep, it happens. Casey got fired after winning his 10th pennant in 12 years I believe.
And now look at Boston and New York, they are better than last year.
Changing the GM/PBO would affect every aspect of the baseball side of the organization – from scouting to player development to analytics to the field staff – and on and on.
It is NOT a move made just before the All-Star break to jolt an underperforming MLB team. Mo’s status is a different discussion for a different time. It is a far more strategic decision compared to the field manager.
P.S. bccran, I am sorry you do not feel I am being honest. I am. I get why Matheny had to go. You are not going to get it no matter what I or anyone else here says. That is my honest view.
I agree. I talked to both Mike and John Mozeliak at length today and didn't see this coming, at least not today. I went to discuss the story from a few days ago and Mike was very soft-spoken and kind about it. Mo seemed composed. I'm assuming this was an ownership move. https://t.co/l15jlpbXSr
— Mark Saxon (@markasaxon) July 15, 2018
Though it was after the season, as recently as 2017, both John Farrell (Boston) and Joe Girardi (NYY) were fired – even though their last teams made the playoffs.
And I think both will be on a short list for manager. I’d love to see them go after Lovello though.
Farrel or Girardi would be fools to come to St. Louis. The FO gives you crap for a roster and then expects you to win. No manager could take this bunch of garbage and make the playoffs. Now, if they are serious and trade or release about nine guys and spend BIG on free agents in the off-season then they’ve seen their past mistakes. I’ll wait and see.
I never understood why Matheny was chosen for manager of the Cardinals to begin with. He had no experience as a Big League manager and therefore no track record. At the time the only explanation given was that Mozeliak identified him as having ‘leadership’ ability. I still don’t get it. Its a shame that all that momentum generated by Jocketty-LaRussa-Duncan was wasted with this Matheny experiment. Its going to take time, and the right personalities, to build a new momentum.
Could this firing have been a result of the front office wanting to get rid of Mabry but Matheny didn’t?
BW52, I understand your feelings about Matheny. I also think he is a good man. I have grown increasingly less enamored of his managing over the last several years. The easiest course of action at this time was to get a new manager and hope he can get the clubhouse back under control.
I still believe major changes need to be made to the players making up the team. However, they need to regain some trade value before the Cardinals attempt to trade them. Otherwise, they are selling low which is bad business.
It’s a real shame when people refer to a solid, fine man as a buffoon. Way out of line.
Well what’s done is done. Bowtie will be next if he can’t get the ship righted quickly. The mob is impatient and I’ve grown tired of watching the GM (and sometimes the owner) make shitty move more often than not. Like I was watching the deer in headlights manager bumble games away the last 2 seasons.
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