Houston Astros (and Red Sox) Stealing Signs

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  • #119382
    gscottar
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    Wow. Owner Jim Crane just fired Luhnow and Hinch both.

    Like I said both of those careers are OVER.

    #119383
    stlcard25
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    Still think it’s a slap on the wrist? I think this debacle sets the Astros back years.

    #119385
    thejager
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    i do think it is a slap on the wrist…they got what they wanted out of it…and it has set them up for success afterwards

    That NO players are being punished AT ALL is the absolute worst of it…they all participated even through their silence and all gained from it…. add in the ramifications of their improved stats leading to better negotiating leverage for better contracts as well as WS shares etc…

    The league is scared of punishing the players as it would ACTUALLY and TRULY set the team back…

    Hinch and Lunhow will be replaced easily…and Cora doesnt matter to the Astros anymore…in fact it hurts another team and opponent…

    punishing the players woudl remove players from the field…and make the Astros play with a lesser team, which would be fitting as they took advantage of the other teams when they cheated…but that would mean less ticket sales…

    all the Stros will do is take their loaded roster and probably make the playoffs if not the WS again…

    tell me how this hurts them again?

    #119386
    stlcard25
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    tell me how this hurts them again?

    They will have a bad manager, probably no good will from free agents or current players going forward, and about the time they are going to need to rebuild (2022ish), they are whacked with heavy penalties on their next two drafts. If the Cards suffered with their loss of the 2017 draft, the Astros will suffer doubly. This is a team that will be missing the playoffs for many years to come, even if they might still have a good team in 2020.

    #119387
    thejager
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    can’t hold lower level staff accountable?

    horrible

    so..they are saying if someone sees a problem and doesnt say anything about it, that they are justified in letting it happen?

    where is the accountability? the players and lower staff saw what was going on, participated, took advantage, and said nothing….

    and they get NO fine at all, no punishment at all…

    see that ballboy getting abused or that attendant attacked? dont say anything, and participate is fine, as long as the coaches told you to do it right?

    #119388
    thejager
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    and if Crane was stand up he would vacate the WS title as a statement that his org wont stand for this…even if i am sure he knew about it too

    #119390
    thejager
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    Stros will still be good for a long while…and you dont need a good manager for a team built like this…and they will still get someone good enough to do well with a loaded team and farm

    i think their current team has plenty to be good for the next 2yrs minimum…which is all they are losing from…which means they are losing an upper 20’s pick in 1 and 2 for 2 years… lets not act like these are top 5 picks they are losing

    #119392
    stlcard25
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    Stros will still be good for a long while…and you dont need a good manager for a team built like this…and they will still get someone good enough to do well with a loaded team and farm

    i think their current team has plenty to be good for the next 2yrs minimum…which is all they are losing from…which means they are losing an upper 20’s pick in 1 and 2 for 2 years… lets not act like these are top 5 picks they are losing

    I simply disagree. I see the pitching taking a step back starting this year, and they won’t be able to keep all their studs with the salary restrictions. No one thought the Cubs would tail off as quickly as they did either. I’d predict Wild Card for the Astros in 2020 then miss the playoffs by 2021 or 2022, followed by a rebuild.

    #119393
    CardsFanInChiTown
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    The Patriots will sign Luhnow before any of us have dinner tonight!

    #119394
    gscottar
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    #119395
    gscottar
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    #119396
    UConn Card
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    Brian,
    I read lengthy tweets by Jeff Passan giving lots of details. Looked like an official doc.

    Player driven. Carlos Beltran mentioned by name. Went to Cora who set out all up.

    Perhaps someone can get those tweets

    #119397
    Ratsbuddy
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    The Patriots will sign Luhnow before any of us have dinner tonight!

    Excellent CFICT! That one actually made me laugh out loud. You’re right there with Pugs on that one!

    r/Esteemed Rat

    #119398
    Brian Walton
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    Looks like I better read the report, UConn. The link to it is in the MLB article I posted a bit ago.

    Thanks!

    #119402
    UConn Card
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    Brian,
    If you read the report that is more than Heyman apparently did before tweeting his expectations re Cora’s punishment.

    I expect Cora to get hammered worse than Luhnow & Hinch.

    #119404
    BlackHillsCard
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    From the report:

    Alex Cora (Bench Coach). Cora was involved in developing both the banging scheme
    and utilizing the replay review room to decode and transmit signs. Cora participated in
    both schemes, and through his active participation, implicitly condoned the players’
    conduct. I will withhold determining the appropriate level of discipline for Cora until after
    the DOI completes its investigation of the allegations that the Red Sox engaged in
    impermissible electronic sign stealing in 2018 while Cora was the manager.

    #119405
    TexasCard
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    This definitely will send shock waves through the game. No doubt about it.

    #119406
    Brian Walton
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    Yes, after I have now read the full report, I agree. Probably the Red Sox will get hit with their own suspension and Cora will go down for both teams’ infractions.

    Hinch comes off like a wimp and Luhnow’s claims of lack of knowledge are not credible.

    #119407
    BlackHillsCard
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    I honestly don’t see how Cora’s punishment would be similar to Luhnow’s and Hinch’s, who the report says were culpable because they didn’t stop the cheating, when he is the one who implemented the system and did it again on a different team.

    #119408
    BlackHillsCard
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    Here’s the link to the full report: https://img.mlbstatic.com/mlb-images/image/upload/mlb/cglrhmlrwwbkacty27l7.pdf

    Here’s the part about Hinch:

    A.J. Hinch (Field Manager). Hinch neither devised the banging scheme nor participated
    in it. Hinch told my investigators that he did not support his players decoding signs using
    the monitor installed near the dugout and banging the trash can, and he believed that the
    conduct was both wrong and distracting. Hinch attempted to signal his disapproval of the
    scheme by physically damaging the monitor on two occasions, necessitating its
    replacement. However, Hinch admits he did not stop it and he did not notify players or
    Cora that he disapproved of it, even after the Red Sox were disciplined in September 2017.
    Similarly, he knew of and did not stop the communication of sign information from the
    replay review room, although he disagreed with this practice as well and specifically voiced
    his concerns on at least one occasion about the use of the replay phone for this purpose.
    As the person with responsibility for managing his players and coaches, there simply is no
    justification for Hinch’s failure to act. If Hinch was unsure about how to handle the
    situation, it was his responsibility to bring the issue to the attention of Luhnow. Hinch
    expressed much contrition both to me and my investigators for allowing the conduct to
    continue. Although I appreciate Hinch’s remorsefulness, I must hold him accountable for
    the conduct of his team, particularly since he had full knowledge of the conduct and chose
    to allow it to continue throughout the 2017 Postseason.

    #119409
    Minuteman3
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    WOW. I never thought MLB would be this serious but I must say that they ‘dropped the hammer’ for sure. Crane then dismisses Luhnow and Hinch so both are out of baseball for 2020 minimum and the Astros lose those top two picks for two years. Wonder if they will now be active in the trade market but since they didn’t lose any players maybe not. It does kind of stink that because the players knew of the system none will have pay a penalty but perhaps the new investigation of the Red Sox will get Cora too.

    #119412
    Minuteman3
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    <-1yr suspensions to GM and manager? so what? it’s not like they won;t have influence on everything from -their homes>

    Maybe you missed that they were also fired by the owner. So not influence from their homes either.

    #119413
    gscottar
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    After reading the report I don’t see how Beltran can be spared either. Manfred says it isn’t practical to punish the players but Beltran is the only one he mentions by name.

    Approximately two months into the 2017 season, a group of players, including
    Carlos Beltrán, discussed that the team could improve on decoding opposing teams’ signs
    and communicating the signs to the batter.

    #119414
    BlackHillsCard
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    Here’s hopping Tyler O’Neil and John Gant don’t have any incriminating evidence 😉

    #119415
    GameCard
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    I think to lose the 1st and 2nd pick in both 2000 & 2001 is significant and will hurt the Astros in years to come.

Viewing 25 posts - 176 through 200 (of 637 total)
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