Home › The Cardinal Nation Forums › Open Forum › Houston Astros (and Red Sox) Stealing Signs
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January 13, 2020 at 2:09 pm #119382
Wow. Owner Jim Crane just fired Luhnow and Hinch both.
Like I said both of those careers are OVER.
January 13, 2020 at 2:10 pm #119383Still think it’s a slap on the wrist? I think this debacle sets the Astros back years.
January 13, 2020 at 2:16 pm #119385i do think it is a slap on the wrist…they got what they wanted out of it…and it has set them up for success afterwards
That NO players are being punished AT ALL is the absolute worst of it…they all participated even through their silence and all gained from it…. add in the ramifications of their improved stats leading to better negotiating leverage for better contracts as well as WS shares etc…
The league is scared of punishing the players as it would ACTUALLY and TRULY set the team back…
Hinch and Lunhow will be replaced easily…and Cora doesnt matter to the Astros anymore…in fact it hurts another team and opponent…
punishing the players woudl remove players from the field…and make the Astros play with a lesser team, which would be fitting as they took advantage of the other teams when they cheated…but that would mean less ticket sales…
all the Stros will do is take their loaded roster and probably make the playoffs if not the WS again…
tell me how this hurts them again?
January 13, 2020 at 2:21 pm #119386tell me how this hurts them again?
They will have a bad manager, probably no good will from free agents or current players going forward, and about the time they are going to need to rebuild (2022ish), they are whacked with heavy penalties on their next two drafts. If the Cards suffered with their loss of the 2017 draft, the Astros will suffer doubly. This is a team that will be missing the playoffs for many years to come, even if they might still have a good team in 2020.
January 13, 2020 at 2:21 pm #119387can’t hold lower level staff accountable?
horrible
so..they are saying if someone sees a problem and doesnt say anything about it, that they are justified in letting it happen?
where is the accountability? the players and lower staff saw what was going on, participated, took advantage, and said nothing….
and they get NO fine at all, no punishment at all…
see that ballboy getting abused or that attendant attacked? dont say anything, and participate is fine, as long as the coaches told you to do it right?
January 13, 2020 at 2:23 pm #119388and if Crane was stand up he would vacate the WS title as a statement that his org wont stand for this…even if i am sure he knew about it too
January 13, 2020 at 2:25 pm #119390Stros will still be good for a long while…and you dont need a good manager for a team built like this…and they will still get someone good enough to do well with a loaded team and farm
i think their current team has plenty to be good for the next 2yrs minimum…which is all they are losing from…which means they are losing an upper 20’s pick in 1 and 2 for 2 years… lets not act like these are top 5 picks they are losing
January 13, 2020 at 2:30 pm #119392Stros will still be good for a long while…and you dont need a good manager for a team built like this…and they will still get someone good enough to do well with a loaded team and farm
i think their current team has plenty to be good for the next 2yrs minimum…which is all they are losing from…which means they are losing an upper 20’s pick in 1 and 2 for 2 years… lets not act like these are top 5 picks they are losing
I simply disagree. I see the pitching taking a step back starting this year, and they won’t be able to keep all their studs with the salary restrictions. No one thought the Cubs would tail off as quickly as they did either. I’d predict Wild Card for the Astros in 2020 then miss the playoffs by 2021 or 2022, followed by a rebuild.
January 13, 2020 at 2:31 pm #119393The Patriots will sign Luhnow before any of us have dinner tonight!
January 13, 2020 at 2:35 pm #119394Many will agree. Luhnow’s methods did not endear himself to many, If any https://t.co/TY9NkEu4h2
— Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) January 13, 2020
January 13, 2020 at 2:36 pm #119395Initial read is Alex Cora will draw a somewhat similar ban from MLB to what a Hinch/Luhnow got, which is 1 season. Not necessarily exact but in the ballpark. MLB said to be still working on Red Sox however, so could change.
— Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) January 13, 2020
January 13, 2020 at 2:37 pm #119396Brian,
I read lengthy tweets by Jeff Passan giving lots of details. Looked like an official doc.Player driven. Carlos Beltran mentioned by name. Went to Cora who set out all up.
Perhaps someone can get those tweets
January 13, 2020 at 2:41 pm #119397The Patriots will sign Luhnow before any of us have dinner tonight!
Excellent CFICT! That one actually made me laugh out loud. You’re right there with Pugs on that one!
r/Esteemed Rat
January 13, 2020 at 2:43 pm #119398Looks like I better read the report, UConn. The link to it is in the MLB article I posted a bit ago.
Thanks!
January 13, 2020 at 2:57 pm #119402Brian,
If you read the report that is more than Heyman apparently did before tweeting his expectations re Cora’s punishment.I expect Cora to get hammered worse than Luhnow & Hinch.
January 13, 2020 at 2:58 pm #119404From the report:
Alex Cora (Bench Coach). Cora was involved in developing both the banging scheme
and utilizing the replay review room to decode and transmit signs. Cora participated in
both schemes, and through his active participation, implicitly condoned the players’
conduct. I will withhold determining the appropriate level of discipline for Cora until after
the DOI completes its investigation of the allegations that the Red Sox engaged in
impermissible electronic sign stealing in 2018 while Cora was the manager.January 13, 2020 at 2:59 pm #119405This definitely will send shock waves through the game. No doubt about it.
January 13, 2020 at 3:00 pm #119406Yes, after I have now read the full report, I agree. Probably the Red Sox will get hit with their own suspension and Cora will go down for both teams’ infractions.
Hinch comes off like a wimp and Luhnow’s claims of lack of knowledge are not credible.
January 13, 2020 at 3:02 pm #119407I honestly don’t see how Cora’s punishment would be similar to Luhnow’s and Hinch’s, who the report says were culpable because they didn’t stop the cheating, when he is the one who implemented the system and did it again on a different team.
January 13, 2020 at 3:03 pm #119408Here’s the link to the full report: https://img.mlbstatic.com/mlb-images/image/upload/mlb/cglrhmlrwwbkacty27l7.pdf
Here’s the part about Hinch:
A.J. Hinch (Field Manager). Hinch neither devised the banging scheme nor participated
in it. Hinch told my investigators that he did not support his players decoding signs using
the monitor installed near the dugout and banging the trash can, and he believed that the
conduct was both wrong and distracting. Hinch attempted to signal his disapproval of the
scheme by physically damaging the monitor on two occasions, necessitating its
replacement. However, Hinch admits he did not stop it and he did not notify players or
Cora that he disapproved of it, even after the Red Sox were disciplined in September 2017.
Similarly, he knew of and did not stop the communication of sign information from the
replay review room, although he disagreed with this practice as well and specifically voiced
his concerns on at least one occasion about the use of the replay phone for this purpose.
As the person with responsibility for managing his players and coaches, there simply is no
justification for Hinch’s failure to act. If Hinch was unsure about how to handle the
situation, it was his responsibility to bring the issue to the attention of Luhnow. Hinch
expressed much contrition both to me and my investigators for allowing the conduct to
continue. Although I appreciate Hinch’s remorsefulness, I must hold him accountable for
the conduct of his team, particularly since he had full knowledge of the conduct and chose
to allow it to continue throughout the 2017 Postseason.January 13, 2020 at 3:14 pm #119409WOW. I never thought MLB would be this serious but I must say that they ‘dropped the hammer’ for sure. Crane then dismisses Luhnow and Hinch so both are out of baseball for 2020 minimum and the Astros lose those top two picks for two years. Wonder if they will now be active in the trade market but since they didn’t lose any players maybe not. It does kind of stink that because the players knew of the system none will have pay a penalty but perhaps the new investigation of the Red Sox will get Cora too.
January 13, 2020 at 3:22 pm #119412<-1yr suspensions to GM and manager? so what? it’s not like they won;t have influence on everything from -their homes>
Maybe you missed that they were also fired by the owner. So not influence from their homes either.
January 13, 2020 at 3:33 pm #119413After reading the report I don’t see how Beltran can be spared either. Manfred says it isn’t practical to punish the players but Beltran is the only one he mentions by name.
Approximately two months into the 2017 season, a group of players, including
Carlos Beltrán, discussed that the team could improve on decoding opposing teams’ signs
and communicating the signs to the batter.January 13, 2020 at 3:34 pm #119414Here’s hopping Tyler O’Neil and John Gant don’t have any incriminating evidence 😉
I'm gonna start to pay reallllly close attention to the bubble guys who get left off postseason rosters. https://t.co/mH8GFCQiXQ
— Tyler Kepner (@TylerKepner) January 13, 2020
January 13, 2020 at 3:34 pm #119415I think to lose the 1st and 2nd pick in both 2000 & 2001 is significant and will hurt the Astros in years to come.
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