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It is leadership at MLBPA’s duty and responsibility to ensure all members are treated fairly. If they don’t take action against those members who adversely affect the livelihood of other members, they stand for nothing and are a disgrace to every union who upholds those beliefs.
If players were going to be disciplined for cheating it would have already happened, which means it isn’t going to happen. I imagine Manfred is breathing a sigh of relief he can hide behind the MLBPA’s “civil war” and not have to do anything.
Jeff Gordon? Wasn’t he announcing the Daytona 500 on Monday?….oh wait.
Punishing Players – Lawyers delight, not just the PA but lawyers crawling out of the woodwork. The reason – where is the evidence? Prove it. Prove that hit was made because of a trash can bang or not. Prove that a hit with no bang was a freak of nature because no sign of a off speed pitch was stolen. There is not way that you can directly correlate a hit of any kind to a trash can bang. Some judge would probably laugh you out of court and award damages to the millionaire player.
So if you want to yap yap yap about punishing players you may wind up with egg on your face. No provable evidence.
If they don’t take action against those members who adversely affect the livelihood of other members, they stand for nothing and are a disgrace to every union who upholds those beliefs.
They did a fine job with Ryan Braun huh?
I always laugh when fans start railing on the commissioner for being an incompetent boob. Their job is to be the bad guy. In theory, they are supposed to be a neutral middle between the players and the owners to run the league. In reality, owners hire and fire them, so they generally do the bidding of the owners and act a shield for unpopular decisions.
Manfred is being blamed from every angle, but I doubt that the people hating on him could get together and come to a consensus about what he should have done. He’s no idiot. He’s just in a job that requires him to be the fall guy.
atc, on this, I would agree with you more than not. By all indications, Manfred has had a very successful career as a labor lawyer. Whether that qualified him to become the senior executive and the face of MLB is another question entirely. I am not impressed with his leadership (at least the part we see) and he does not come off well credibly in public, all in my opinion, of course.
But the bottom line is as you say. He serves at the pleasure of the owners. They cannot be happy about the negative PR right now, which undoubtedly Manfred has made worse. However, any small financial blowback from that is peanuts compared to what will be on the table for the next CBA negotiation with the players. That is where counselor Manfred will earn his keep.
gscottar asked:
National reporters are almost as annoying as Scott Boras, right? :o)
No, my comment was not a generic one. I have said many times that Scott Boras is very good at his job. So are national reporters Ken Rosenthal, Jeff Passan and many others. Then there is Jon Heyman. One is not like the others. All IMO, of course.
Interesting. Classic case of addressing the symptom instead of the problem.
“This year a significant number of teams are engaged in a race to the bottom. This conduct is a fundamental breach of the trust between a team and its fans and threatens the very integrity of our game.” — Tony Clark 2-6-2018
“conduct, trust and integrity” … Just look in-house Tony, and show everyone if your house is made of glass.
No, my comment was not a generic one. I have said many times that Scott Boras is very good at his job. So are national reporters Ken Rosenthal, Jeff Passan and many others. Then there is Jon Heyman. One is not like the others. All IMO, of course.
Fair enough. I don’t disagree that Heyman is a tool for certain agents but the main reason I follow him on twitter is that he does seem to specialize in getting contract details out there quickly and I like that because I like to keep payroll information in spreadsheets to analyze. It will make it to the others eventually but he is usually first.
I also like that he actually talks baseball unlike our local boy Goold who seems to despise it even though it is job.
Rosenthal is a good one no doubt.
What’s really infuriating to me is MLB had received numerous complaints about the Astros and did nothing about them. They completely ignored what was happening. Instead of investigating the Astros Manfred comes up with more rule changes instead of addressing the root cause. He only acted when Mike Fiers came out admitting to cheating in The Athletic article. Then you have people like Jessica Mendoza saying Fiers should have kept it in house bla blah blah.
Mouth pieces paying lip service to incompetence.
Blame being pushed onto Beltran (with a weak manager). Players still not taking responsibility. Rationalizing going on. Some are calling it making excuses. And look who is the mouthpiece…
What I hear in Astros clubhouse: they were convinced by a very veteran star player that “everyone was doing it.” “Steamrolled” is way too strong a word. Star struck might fit better. Feels like they’re not sure what to make of that now. They were a young, impressionable team.
— Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) February 20, 2020
Another national reporter’s reaction to Heyman’s tweet sums it up for me, too…
https://t.co/iCwuE9pc7w pic.twitter.com/oQf5uvkrzo
— Drew Silva (@drewsilv) February 20, 2020
Brian, I feel like all of this Heyman talk would be a great time to bring a clown emoji into the forums.
I think Heyman has been very critical of the Astros over and over through this saga so it seems strange to divert attention away from the actual cheaters and try to make him the bad guy unless there is some other agenda.
Did you lose focus on the real issues? I will restate them.
The Astros cheated.
Many feel the penalties were not strong enough for team and/or players.
Beltran is being thrown under the bus.
Players are still not taking responsibility.
Some are making excuses for them.Fact: The Astros cheated by using electronic devices to steal signs.
Questions: How many extra hits did they get from the system?
How many banged balls were hit for outs?
How many banged balls resulted in base hits?
How many banged balls resulted in strikeouts?
You can ask a hundred more similar questions but you can never prove that the result of the cheating was a World Series victory.
The chart posted here by ?? showing the member/# of bangs/# of pitches shows a disparity in how successful the banging was for different players BUT you have to assume that players who did well did so because of the banging. You know the old joke about A S S U M E.
For me – they cut the head off the snakes. It is impossible to prove anything further. Play Ball.Did you lose focus on the real issues? I will restate them.
I am aware of the issues and I think it is fair to say that the national sportswriter in question has been all over the map in covering it. On page 20 of this thread he is quoted more than once in blasting the Astros but now he appears to be defending some of them. I am just saying that he isn’t the real story. The real story is still the cheaters.
For me – they cut the head off the snakes. It is impossible to prove anything further. Play Ball.
Wishing like crazy that this issue would just go away isn’t going to make it go away. I suspect the Astros will continue to get pummeled (figuratively and literally) for quite some time.
Let’s step back, gscottar. You took a shot at Goold, even on a thread in which he has no place. Yet, no one chides you for restating your position on him here.
Yet when someone else criticizes a reporter who actually has something to do with the topic, you not only rush to defend him, but you also previously brought another subject who has nothing to do with the Astros cheating into this discussion (Scott Boras).
Then you suggest others are diverting away the focus of the thread. I find this whole matter oddly inconsistent.
Let’s see. You take shots at Goold, even on a thread in which he has no place. Yet, no one chides you for restating your position on him here.
I was making a comparison of different reporting styles. I would call that an opinion not a cheap shot.
Yet when someone else criticizes a reporter who actually has something to do with the topic, you not only rush to defend him, but you also drag another subject who has nothing to do with the Astros cheating into this discussion (Scott Boras).
I also stated that Heyman was being inconsistent in his portrayals, which shouldn’t be interpreted as a defense.
I think Heyman has been very critical of the Astros over and over through this saga so it seems strange to divert attention away from the actual cheaters and try to make him the bad guy unless there is some other agenda.
Heyman is making excuses for them. That’s a problem for me.
Every day, more messes. Now the codebreaker has been fingered.
Pitcher Mike Bolsinger, who sued the Houston Astros alleging he lost his major league career because of their cheating scheme, has amended his complaint to include two individuals: Astros owner Jim Crane and "Codebreaker" intern Derek Vigoa. News at ESPN: https://t.co/jcySDiQXiv
— Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) February 20, 2020
“Hello, Rob?”
“Yes.”
“Billy Beane here. I am calling about the Astros…”
(click)…Lucroy says Fiers told him of Astros scheme two years ago. Said A’s called MLB and league did nothing. When he saw Athletic report in November, thought “Oh boy.”
— Chris Cotillo (@ChrisCotillo) February 20, 2020
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